The cause of the living entities illusionary bewildered existence in the material universe is due to denying their existence as an eternal servant God or Krishna.
It is because of this, the living entity only looks within the limited material energy with Godless instruments like the Large Hadron Collider for the cause and purpose of his existence.
Even then, while in the biological gross material body, the embodied living entity is only capable of viewing a small percentage of the entire material energy with such devices, which is less than 5% of the material universe known as gross matter.
The other 95% is subtle matter that is undetectable by using the 5% of known gross matter we know about. Such gross matter cannot perceive subtle matter. All gross matter is ordinary matter that makes up everything we perceive with our biological body that is also a product of gross matter. In other words, all that we see with the help of modern physics and technology is a mere 5% of material energy. Which is a drop in the ocean.
Since 2008, only a few years ago, a new technological invention has come on line called the Large Hadron Collider at CERN (European Organization for Nuclear Research) It was built with the aim of allowing physicists to test the predictions of different theories of particle physics and high-energy physics, and particularly prove or disprove the existence of the theorized Higgs particle (also known as the God particle) and of the large family of new particles predicted by supersymmetric theories scientists claim holds together all matter.
The Higgs particle was confirmed in 2013 but has absolutely nothing to do with identifying God as the cause of this creation; to the contrary, it has misrepresented the word God.
The Large Hadron Collider is expected to address some of the unsolved questions of physics, advancing human understanding of physical laws further than the radio, TV, mobile phones, internet, space travel etc and also find new breakthroughs in medicine. It contains seven detectors each designed for specific kinds of exploration however; such detectors will never be able to discover subtle material energy. And as far as the Spiritual energy universe is concerned, they will never discover it with such technology, not that they would want to anyway, after all, the atheistic material scientists rejected Krishna or God long, long ago and chose a material existence where they want to forever search within material existence for answers rather than trying to reestablish their original relationship with Krishna.
The Large Hadron Collider was built in collaboration with over 10,000 scientists and engineers from over 100 countries, as well as hundreds of universities and laboratories. It lies in a tunnel 27 kilometres (17 mi) in circumference, as deep as 175 metres (574 ft) beneath the Franco-Swiss border near Geneva, Switzerland.
This Large Hadron Collider has been designed to look at the foundation of what material energy is however, even this machine, that costs 10 billion dollars, can only search within a mere 5% of matter that is a small portion of the material energy known as gross matter. Gross matter as already explained cannot detect the other 95% of matter, which is known as subtle matter. Such a big endeavor for such little return all because these scientists are not aware there is much more to the material universe than mundane matter or gross matter reveals to us. The real mystery of the universe is there right in front of them and called ‘life’.
In this way, because we are all living entities covered by matter or material vessels, it is therefore inherent in our makeup to find the cause of life that moves matter and research the difference between life and dead matter. The scientists are simply looking in the wrong place with their Large Hadron Collider. Why? Ultimately it is because most scientists deny the existence of God and believe instead in the Big Bang as the cause of existence and the evolution of the species as the cause of our existence.
This is why there are also many physicists who inherently believe there is more to the 5% of ordinary matter or gross matter they can only perceive. After all, they can only research with the Large Hadron Collider, 5% of the material universe and all agree there is an unknown 95% of matter they cannot recognize. They have fancy names for this other 95% of material energy that they call dark energy and dark matter but have no idea what it is.
They claim the large Hadron Collider will shed light on what this unknown 95% of subtle matter is however, because the Large Hadron Collider is made of the same gross matter as the known 5% of the material universe (ordinary matter) is made of, the Large Hadron Collider will not be able to detect it.
Although it will reveal to them that the material universe’s 5% of gross matter is much bigger than what is seen via the means of biological eyes only however, as already explained, their technological extensions that are also made of gross matter, can never detect or enter the other 95% of the material universe’s subtle worlds. This only means they are looking within a very small percentage of matter.
Factually, there is only one way to view this subtle material energy and it is not through modern technology. The only way is by developing ones higher consciousness through pious activity and this can never happen without a higher understanding of the entire material universe as described in the Vedas and most importantly the instructions in the Bhagavat Purana or Srimad Bhagavatam.
Even this higher understanding of the material universe does not depend on understanding Krishna as God, after all, we came to the material universe to forget Krishna as God and He allows this because it is our desire. Krishna gives us the free will to remember Him or forget Him for a near eternity if we want.
The material universe is for such souls or living entities because they deny the existence of Krishna. For this reason Krishna gives them the intelligence or lack of spiritual intelligence to search ONLY within the limited gross or the subtle material energy. In the case of our planet it is the gross material energy however, there are so many other planets within the subtle realm also and many of them do not believe in Krishna as God also.
As already said, this is because most of those who come to the material universe do so because they reject Krishna and want to do their own thing. They do not want to know Krishna and want to find their own meaning of existence but in doing this, they limit themselves to the material energy and even then because they also do not believe in the subtle material energy or ghostly world, they limit themselves to ordinary matter or gross matter which s a mere 5% of the material creation.
So because even this gross matter is vast, the human race can search within this limited 5% of matter for nearly an eternity or they can also take birth on a planet in the subtle material worlds on a heavenly or hellish planet that take up 95% of the material universe, moving throughout all the 14 different realms of existence for as long as they continue to deny the existence of Krishna as the cause of all causes and servitude to Him as the real goal of the living entities.
Krishna has given us an enormous almost unlimited material universe to play in and concoct our own existence and make up our own purpose of existence. With technology we have discovered many means of transport and now the human race believes that the gross material Cosmos, which is all they can perceive with their biological senses, telescopes and space probes, is the final frontier. In actual fact, what they perceive with the biological eyes and its technological extensions is only the tip of the iceberg.
They have built spacecrafts, space probes, the Large Hadron Collider, Electron microscopes and the Hubble Telescope to search amongst the limited gross matter for what they call the unknown (less than 5% of the material universe). Ignorance of ones real self and purpose which is to reestablish ones servitude relationship with Krishna, is always inherent within all of us and Krishna, through His pure devotees, are continuously inviting the conditioned souls to return home, back to Godhead. The continuous denial of the real self is caused by the stubborn denial that serving Krishna or God is the real position of the living entity. The living entity wants to serve their own desires and do not want to know about God, so Krishna allows this and gives them the material universe to do whatever they want to do. Krishna does not interfere yet always has his pure devotees present just in case a living entity wants the directions to return back home, back to Godhead.
The fact is, Krishna’s laws apply throughout the gross or ordinary matter of the material universe as well as the subtle aspect of the material universe. Such laws of nature are coming from Krishna’s expansion Maha Vishnu and passed on to Lord Brahma who in turn builds both the subtle and gross aspects of the material universe. This material universe is built in the form of 14 worlds, all with different time realities where most of them are in the subtle realm of the material universe that is devoid of gross matter. Such information is found within the sacred Vedic texts
All these temporary material realities, gross and subtle, caters for all the mistaken independent desires of the living entities who have rejected Krishna as the center of loving servitude and chose to leave their real home of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrndavana to attempt to serve their own selfish desires. All of us have originally come from Vaikuntha as Srila Prabhupada tells us.
These eternal Krishna conscious abodes are the Spiritual universe existing beyond the subtle and gross aspect of the material universe and also beyond the concept of mundane time which means there is no death, disease or the pangs of old age, life is eternal. Vaikuntha is known as a place of the ‘eternal presence’, which means it is devoid of past and future. Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrndavana makes up ¾ of the entire creation.
On the other hand, this mundane material creation of gross and subtle material energy is temporary which means it is divide by time - past, present and future and only makes up only ¼ of the entire creation. It is a place of repeated birth, disease, old age and death.
Hare Krishna your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa
Sunday, October 13, 2013
Monday, October 7, 2013
Material scientists admit that ‘ordinary matter’ is only a very small portion of the material universe as the diagram reveals
The material scientists confess they cannot observe the entire material universe in its fullness because there is a subtle material energy they cannot detect they call dark matter and dark energy, that makes up over 95% of the material universe.
Over the last few years many modern scientist have concluded that there is a type of subtle matter in the material universe that is undetected by the instruments made of gross matter (materials made of ordinary matter) that we are familiar with in our limited view of the material universe. In fact, that ordinary matter we perceive with our biological senses (also made of ordinary matter) and their extensions like space probes, Electron microscopes and instruments like the Large Hadron Collider, only takes up 4.9% of the complete material universe according to modern scientists. This is the limited view they only have
In other words, even the material scientists know there is much more to the material cosmos than what is seen through biological eyes and their gross material extensions but have no way of detecting it. There are many Cosmologists and physicists who claim they do not know what the other 95.1% of the material universe is made of and can only refer to it as dark energy and dark matter.
As ancient scriptures like the Vedas tell us, there are two aspects to the material universe, the first feature is known as the gross material energy that we see all around us through the medium of our biological body that is also gross material energy, and the second is the subtle material energy that is also occupied by planetary systems, civilizations and living entities but is not perceived from the gross material biological platform by the material scientists.
The subtle aspect of the universe is unknown to the instruments of modern science although many people have experienced this subtle energy on a personal level; after all, all of us also have a underlining subtle material body that is further covered by the grosser biological material body which in fact moves all biological vessels in the gross material dimension of the universe taking up only 4.9% of the material creation
This gross biological covering is so thick that for most of us (except for advanced yogis, devotees and sages), blocks out our ability to perceive or acknowledge the subtle material universe that exists all around us taking up 95.1% of the material creation, therefore our so called advanced technology that we foolishly think is advanced, is only seeing a very, very small portion of the entire material universe.
Often many of those yogis and sages as well as many religions mistake this subtle material universe for the spiritual universe however, even though there are many heavenly worlds on this subtle platform where the life span is 10,000 years or more, such subtle worlds are only material and temperory. The actual Spiritual universe is beyond both the subtle and gross coverings of this transitory material universe
In Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 3.31.41 Srila Prabhupada says – “We should always remember, as it is stated in Bhagavad-gita, that both the gross and subtle material bodies are dresses; they are the shirt and coat of the living entity”
The material scientists know there is something more to the material universe than what meets the eye but have not discovered the correct way to acknowledge it as yet. They have become good at analyzing a very small portion of the 4.9% of the material universe they know about on this small Earth planet, and have invented many instruments in medicine and other technologies that have greatly influenced breakthroughs in biology and technology by rearranging and manipulating this small amount of the 4.9% of the known material universe.
However, they still have not discovered the underlining subtle energy in the material universe nor the subtle individual vessels that exists as a basis within all biological species within the gross material aspect of the universe. The subtle material universe is the backdrop to the gross material universe, which cannot exist without subtle matter
The only way to truly understand this is by penance, austerity and pious activity, which sound a bit vague to most people because most people do not know enough about the subtle workings of the material universe in this age of Kali-yuga. Anyway it’s good to know that all our vast gross scientific material knowledge and technology is only exploring 4.9% of the total material universe. There is still so much more to discover in this small percentage of the material universe, what to speak of the subtle material universe and the Spiritual realm beyond that.
Ultimately the only way to understand all this is by developing higher knowledge through higher consciousness, only then can one discover what is in the other 94.9% of the material universe that is still mundane to a devotee of Krishna.
The point is, this subtle aspect of the material universe is beyond the realms of modern technology, it can never be perceived with gross material means or endeavors.
The next question is, in the subtle material universe, what are the subtle material bodily vessels made of? Srila Prabhupada tells us the subtle material body is made of mind, intelligence and ego. This answer is not very easy to understand because we are seeing everything from the gross material platform that governs this gross universe only. Such laws of nature are different in the subtle world and cannot be measured by instruments in the gross world. No material scientist can detect the subtle body of mind, intelligence and ego leaving the biological body at the time of its death.
This is where the Srimad Bhagavatam and other Vedic texts come into the picture however, this needs highly advanced devotees of Krishna to not only present this knowledge but also live it, only then will all these secrets of not only the mundane subtle material universe be known, but also the spiritual worlds of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrndavana, which is way beyond all the gross and subtle characteristics of the material universe.
Srila Prabhupada explains further how the gross biological and subtle bodies are material covings of the jiva soul also known as the marginal living entity which is our real individual identity
“We have got two kinds of body. One body is this gross body, and the other body is subtle body, made of mind, intelligence, and ego. So foolish person, they do not see the subtle body, but the subtle body is there.
Everyone will accept. I am working with my mind, intelligence and ego. Everyone knows. So although we cannot see the subtle body, it is there. So death means this gross body, this overcoat is left, and I am carried away by the subtle body, and I enter into another overcoat, or gross body.
So practically this is called death. Because we have no vision of the subtle body, how the soul is being transferred or transmigrating from one gross body to another gross body, keeping the subtle body intact. And the subtle body is given up when one is liberated. And at that time he goes, when he is liberated, freed from this subtle body also, at that time he is promoted to the spiritual kingdom in spiritual body.
Therefore while living in this gross body, we have to educate our subtle body in such a way that it becomes spiritualized completely.
The subtle body is mind, intelligence and ego.
So if we think of Krsna in the mind, always, and if we work intelligently for Krsna, that is mind and intelligence. And if we change our false ego, ego means, "I am." So I am at the present moment thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am white," "I am black," like that. "I am human being," "I am animal," "I am cat or dog," so many things, "I am." This "I am" has to be changed. I am eternal servant of Krsna.
In this way, if you educate or transfer the activities of the subtle body, mind, intelligence, and ego, then, at the time of death, you give up this subtle body, material subtle body, mind, intelligence, and ego, and by your spiritual body you go back to home, back to Godhead. This is called Krsna consciousness movement. Gross body, automatically we give up. Now, we should practice to give up the subtle body. To give up this subtle body, one has to develop love for God, prema. And the process is, how to give up the subtle body” Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.8
September 6, 1972, New Vrndavana.
The material scientists confess they cannot observe the entire material universe in its fullness because there is a subtle material energy they cannot detect they call dark matter and dark energy, that makes up over 95% of the material universe.
Over the last few years many modern scientist have concluded that there is a type of subtle matter in the material universe that is undetected by the instruments made of gross matter (materials made of ordinary matter) that we are familiar with in our limited view of the material universe. In fact, that ordinary matter we perceive with our biological senses (also made of ordinary matter) and their extensions like space probes, Electron microscopes and instruments like the Large Hadron Collider, only takes up 4.9% of the complete material universe according to modern scientists. This is the limited view they only have
In other words, even the material scientists know there is much more to the material cosmos than what is seen through biological eyes and their gross material extensions but have no way of detecting it. There are many Cosmologists and physicists who claim they do not know what the other 95.1% of the material universe is made of and can only refer to it as dark energy and dark matter.
As ancient scriptures like the Vedas tell us, there are two aspects to the material universe, the first feature is known as the gross material energy that we see all around us through the medium of our biological body that is also gross material energy, and the second is the subtle material energy that is also occupied by planetary systems, civilizations and living entities but is not perceived from the gross material biological platform by the material scientists.
The subtle aspect of the universe is unknown to the instruments of modern science although many people have experienced this subtle energy on a personal level; after all, all of us also have a underlining subtle material body that is further covered by the grosser biological material body which in fact moves all biological vessels in the gross material dimension of the universe taking up only 4.9% of the material creation
This gross biological covering is so thick that for most of us (except for advanced yogis, devotees and sages), blocks out our ability to perceive or acknowledge the subtle material universe that exists all around us taking up 95.1% of the material creation, therefore our so called advanced technology that we foolishly think is advanced, is only seeing a very, very small portion of the entire material universe.
Often many of those yogis and sages as well as many religions mistake this subtle material universe for the spiritual universe however, even though there are many heavenly worlds on this subtle platform where the life span is 10,000 years or more, such subtle worlds are only material and temperory. The actual Spiritual universe is beyond both the subtle and gross coverings of this transitory material universe
In Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 3.31.41 Srila Prabhupada says – “We should always remember, as it is stated in Bhagavad-gita, that both the gross and subtle material bodies are dresses; they are the shirt and coat of the living entity”
The material scientists know there is something more to the material universe than what meets the eye but have not discovered the correct way to acknowledge it as yet. They have become good at analyzing a very small portion of the 4.9% of the material universe they know about on this small Earth planet, and have invented many instruments in medicine and other technologies that have greatly influenced breakthroughs in biology and technology by rearranging and manipulating this small amount of the 4.9% of the known material universe.
However, they still have not discovered the underlining subtle energy in the material universe nor the subtle individual vessels that exists as a basis within all biological species within the gross material aspect of the universe. The subtle material universe is the backdrop to the gross material universe, which cannot exist without subtle matter
The only way to truly understand this is by penance, austerity and pious activity, which sound a bit vague to most people because most people do not know enough about the subtle workings of the material universe in this age of Kali-yuga. Anyway it’s good to know that all our vast gross scientific material knowledge and technology is only exploring 4.9% of the total material universe. There is still so much more to discover in this small percentage of the material universe, what to speak of the subtle material universe and the Spiritual realm beyond that.
Ultimately the only way to understand all this is by developing higher knowledge through higher consciousness, only then can one discover what is in the other 94.9% of the material universe that is still mundane to a devotee of Krishna.
The point is, this subtle aspect of the material universe is beyond the realms of modern technology, it can never be perceived with gross material means or endeavors.
The next question is, in the subtle material universe, what are the subtle material bodily vessels made of? Srila Prabhupada tells us the subtle material body is made of mind, intelligence and ego. This answer is not very easy to understand because we are seeing everything from the gross material platform that governs this gross universe only. Such laws of nature are different in the subtle world and cannot be measured by instruments in the gross world. No material scientist can detect the subtle body of mind, intelligence and ego leaving the biological body at the time of its death.
This is where the Srimad Bhagavatam and other Vedic texts come into the picture however, this needs highly advanced devotees of Krishna to not only present this knowledge but also live it, only then will all these secrets of not only the mundane subtle material universe be known, but also the spiritual worlds of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrndavana, which is way beyond all the gross and subtle characteristics of the material universe.
Srila Prabhupada explains further how the gross biological and subtle bodies are material covings of the jiva soul also known as the marginal living entity which is our real individual identity
“We have got two kinds of body. One body is this gross body, and the other body is subtle body, made of mind, intelligence, and ego. So foolish person, they do not see the subtle body, but the subtle body is there.
Everyone will accept. I am working with my mind, intelligence and ego. Everyone knows. So although we cannot see the subtle body, it is there. So death means this gross body, this overcoat is left, and I am carried away by the subtle body, and I enter into another overcoat, or gross body.
So practically this is called death. Because we have no vision of the subtle body, how the soul is being transferred or transmigrating from one gross body to another gross body, keeping the subtle body intact. And the subtle body is given up when one is liberated. And at that time he goes, when he is liberated, freed from this subtle body also, at that time he is promoted to the spiritual kingdom in spiritual body.
Therefore while living in this gross body, we have to educate our subtle body in such a way that it becomes spiritualized completely.
The subtle body is mind, intelligence and ego.
So if we think of Krsna in the mind, always, and if we work intelligently for Krsna, that is mind and intelligence. And if we change our false ego, ego means, "I am." So I am at the present moment thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am white," "I am black," like that. "I am human being," "I am animal," "I am cat or dog," so many things, "I am." This "I am" has to be changed. I am eternal servant of Krsna.
In this way, if you educate or transfer the activities of the subtle body, mind, intelligence, and ego, then, at the time of death, you give up this subtle body, material subtle body, mind, intelligence, and ego, and by your spiritual body you go back to home, back to Godhead. This is called Krsna consciousness movement. Gross body, automatically we give up. Now, we should practice to give up the subtle body. To give up this subtle body, one has to develop love for God, prema. And the process is, how to give up the subtle body” Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.8
September 6, 1972, New Vrndavana.
Sunday, October 6, 2013
For centuries it was believed that the Earth was the center of the universe.
This belief, known as the geocentric model, held that the Earth was stationary while the sky revolved above it on a set of celestial spheres.
Aristotle eloquently argued how the Earth must be stationary and thus the center of the universe because you could not feel the Earth move;
there was no wind due to a moving Earth, hence it must be stationary; the birds and the clouds would be left behind if the Earth were moving; and if the Earth were moving the stars would display a parallax effect.
This was to be the common belief for over 1800 years, not only because of the persuasive arguments of Aristotle, but also because a feature of the Greek philosophy was that the universe was perfect. So, they believed that the celestial spheres the stars moved on were perfect, and everything in the sky was perfect.
Later, as the Catholic Church rose to prominence, this would be interpreted as a philosophy of a perfect sky as an indication of a perfect God. Therefore, any philosophy that did not agree with the geocentric belief was considered heretical. Anyone professing such beliefs risked facing the wrath of the Church. This understandably made people reluctant to present new ideas.
In 1543, Nicolaus Copernicus published Concerning the Revolutions of Celestial Spheres. He was very elderly, and in fact received the first copy of his book the day he died. This undoubtedly played a role in his decision to publish, because his book presented the then-controversial idea of what we call the heliocentric model.
What Copernicus claimed was that the Sun, not the Earth, was the center of the universe, and the Earth, stars, and planets all revolved about the Sun. It is this book that marks the beginning of modern astronomy and modern science. Because of the enormous importance of the work, the heliocentric model is commonly called the Copernican System.
Copernicus' work was initially rejected and his book was banned by the Church. But the damage had been done, and Johannes Kepler devoted himself to the task of mathematically describing the orbits of the planets about the Sun. He was able to solve this problem by 1619 with what is now known as Kepler's Three Laws of Planetary Motion.
Galileo declared in the early 1600s that he believed in the Copernican System, but he didn't have the necessary tools to prove it. However, by the end of 1610, Galileo had access to a new tool to prove his beliefs: the telescope. In that year, or early 1611, Galileo became the first person to observe the heavens through a telescope.
He immediately made several amazing discoveries, including mountains on the Moon and moons orbiting Jupiter (now known as the Galilean moons), and also discovered that the Milky Way was made of thousands of small stars and Venus went through a whole set of phases like the Moon. He presented his findings in a book called Sidereus Nuncias (The Messenger of the Stars) in 1611.
His beliefs would eventually bring him before the Inquisition, where he was forced to recant his beliefs before the court and later placed under house arrest, although it was not rigorously enforced.
But before long, the popularity of the Copernican System grew until it was the accepted model. Does this mean that it was no longer believed that we were the center of the universe? No. The belief was that the Sun, not the Earth, was at the center of the universe.
So we were still focused on the idea that there was something special about us. We had simply moved the universal center from our planet to our star. One of the reasons for this is because astronomers saw basically the same numbers of stars in all directions. If we were not the center, they reasoned, then we would see more stars in one direction than another. Since this was not the case, it must be because we were at the center.
By the latter part of the nineteenth century, a number of star groups called globular clusters had been identified. Globular clusters are large, spherical groups of stars, numbering in the hundreds of thousands, or even millions of stars, and orbit the Milky Way.
Distances to these globular clusters could be calculated, and the astronomer Harlow Shapley reasoned that if we were at the center of the universe, there should be an even distribution of globular clusters in all directions. However, when he plotted the locations of the globular clusters, he found we were not at the center of the Milky Way, and he was able to make a good estimate of the distance to the true center.
Then it was established that the Sun was not the center of the universe, but it was still thought that the center of the Milky Way was the center of the universe. It was not until the twentieth century that it was finally established that neither we nor our galaxy formed the center of the universe.
This belief, known as the geocentric model, held that the Earth was stationary while the sky revolved above it on a set of celestial spheres.
Aristotle eloquently argued how the Earth must be stationary and thus the center of the universe because you could not feel the Earth move;
there was no wind due to a moving Earth, hence it must be stationary; the birds and the clouds would be left behind if the Earth were moving; and if the Earth were moving the stars would display a parallax effect.
This was to be the common belief for over 1800 years, not only because of the persuasive arguments of Aristotle, but also because a feature of the Greek philosophy was that the universe was perfect. So, they believed that the celestial spheres the stars moved on were perfect, and everything in the sky was perfect.
Later, as the Catholic Church rose to prominence, this would be interpreted as a philosophy of a perfect sky as an indication of a perfect God. Therefore, any philosophy that did not agree with the geocentric belief was considered heretical. Anyone professing such beliefs risked facing the wrath of the Church. This understandably made people reluctant to present new ideas.
In 1543, Nicolaus Copernicus published Concerning the Revolutions of Celestial Spheres. He was very elderly, and in fact received the first copy of his book the day he died. This undoubtedly played a role in his decision to publish, because his book presented the then-controversial idea of what we call the heliocentric model.
What Copernicus claimed was that the Sun, not the Earth, was the center of the universe, and the Earth, stars, and planets all revolved about the Sun. It is this book that marks the beginning of modern astronomy and modern science. Because of the enormous importance of the work, the heliocentric model is commonly called the Copernican System.
Copernicus' work was initially rejected and his book was banned by the Church. But the damage had been done, and Johannes Kepler devoted himself to the task of mathematically describing the orbits of the planets about the Sun. He was able to solve this problem by 1619 with what is now known as Kepler's Three Laws of Planetary Motion.
Galileo declared in the early 1600s that he believed in the Copernican System, but he didn't have the necessary tools to prove it. However, by the end of 1610, Galileo had access to a new tool to prove his beliefs: the telescope. In that year, or early 1611, Galileo became the first person to observe the heavens through a telescope.
He immediately made several amazing discoveries, including mountains on the Moon and moons orbiting Jupiter (now known as the Galilean moons), and also discovered that the Milky Way was made of thousands of small stars and Venus went through a whole set of phases like the Moon. He presented his findings in a book called Sidereus Nuncias (The Messenger of the Stars) in 1611.
His beliefs would eventually bring him before the Inquisition, where he was forced to recant his beliefs before the court and later placed under house arrest, although it was not rigorously enforced.
But before long, the popularity of the Copernican System grew until it was the accepted model. Does this mean that it was no longer believed that we were the center of the universe? No. The belief was that the Sun, not the Earth, was at the center of the universe.
So we were still focused on the idea that there was something special about us. We had simply moved the universal center from our planet to our star. One of the reasons for this is because astronomers saw basically the same numbers of stars in all directions. If we were not the center, they reasoned, then we would see more stars in one direction than another. Since this was not the case, it must be because we were at the center.
By the latter part of the nineteenth century, a number of star groups called globular clusters had been identified. Globular clusters are large, spherical groups of stars, numbering in the hundreds of thousands, or even millions of stars, and orbit the Milky Way.
Distances to these globular clusters could be calculated, and the astronomer Harlow Shapley reasoned that if we were at the center of the universe, there should be an even distribution of globular clusters in all directions. However, when he plotted the locations of the globular clusters, he found we were not at the center of the Milky Way, and he was able to make a good estimate of the distance to the true center.
Then it was established that the Sun was not the center of the universe, but it was still thought that the center of the Milky Way was the center of the universe. It was not until the twentieth century that it was finally established that neither we nor our galaxy formed the center of the universe.
Saturday, October 5, 2013
Is Vedic Cosmology Susceptible to 21st Century Modern Scientific Influence?
BY: GAURAGOPALA DASA
Mayesa Prabhu and Sadaputa Prabhu differ greatly in their understanding of Surya-Siddhanta and the 5th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam; Mayesa cannot understand how one can come to the conclusion that the Moon is 258,000 miles from Earth, which is close to the material scientist’s calculations of 238,000 miles, with mathematical calculations found in both Srimad Bhagavatam and Surya-siddhanta. Who is right?
Also why did Srila Prabhupada accept the distance between Earth and Sun at 93,000,000 miles that differs from the Srimad Bhagavatam's calculations?
Sadaputa Prabhu in his book, Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy tries to answer this with the following explanation:
Question - In Srimad Bhagavatam 8.10.38p, Srila Prabhupada says, "The Sun is supposed to be 93,000,000 miles above the surface of the Earth, and from the Srimad-Bhagavatam we understand that the Moon is 1,600,000 miles above the Sun. Therefore the distance between the Earth and the Moon would be about 95,000,000 miles." Doesn't this plainly say that the Moon is farther from the Earth than the Sun?
Answer – "In the summary at the end of Chapter 23 of the Fifth Canto Srila Prabhupada says, "The distance from the Sun to the Earth is 100,000 yojanas." At 8 miles per yojana, this comes to 800,000 miles. We suggest that when Srila Prabhupada cites the modern Western Earth-Sun distance of 93,000,000 miles, he is simply making the point that if you put together the Bhagavatam and modern astronomy you get a contradictory picture. His conclusion is that one should simply accept the Vedic version, and he was not interested in personally delving into astronomical arguments in detail".
The comment about Srila Prabhupada saying the Sun is 93,000,000 does not translate to the yoganas mentioned in the Bhagavatam, he seemed to be just quoting the material scientists distance of the Sun of 93,000,000, then adding the Moon distance on top of that, the point is, does it translate to 93,000,000 miles away? I don't think it says that in the Bhagavatam even though Srila Prabhupada kind of says it, actually if you read his statement he says, 'The Sun is supposed to be 93,000,000 miles above the surface of the Earth, if that is so, then the Moon must be 95,000,000 million miles away.' In other words he is not really saying those figures, he is just using an example using modern science calculations.
Mayesa dasa explains further with a more fundamental understanding–
'Srila Prabhupada sometimes quoted the modern science view that the Sun is 93 million miles away from Earth. In those instances he is not trying to tell us that scientists are exactly right. Like Srila Prabhupada, we are also slaves to guru, sadhu and sastra, so with guru and Krsna's help, it may be possible for us to understand to some degree these things.
In the matter of the Moon it is so difficult but one thing is, modern science has it that the Moon and the Earth are both very small planets. Modern science says that the Moon and the Earth revolve around each other as they revolve around the Sun, which revolves around an unseen center of what they call the Galaxy center. Modern science also believe the universe is continuously expanding.
We disagree with almost all of this. But the important point is, this revolution of the Moon around the Earth and Earth around the Moon, with the Sun "virtually" unmoving save only over long period around some galactic center, means the Moon must therefore be small and it must be very close to Earth for this rotation to be possible.
Our Sastra however, does not agree with this. Actually it is the Sun moving and not the Earth. Also as already explained, modern science takes the Moon and Earth to be going around each and the Earth revolving on its axis, the Earth does not do that according to sastra. Vedic information has Earth close to center of the whole planetary system; this information should come close to the information about the winds and the circular shape of the universe.
It is helpful to understand that Vedic knowledge has it that the planets are propelled by a kind of wind. There is a verse in Vedic literature that the winds of this universe are the prana of the universal form. Now as such, these winds are able to circulate around us. Dhruva is said to revolve at the top. And way low in the universe some demigod animals are regulating this flow to keep it perfect.
By reconstructing a model of this it might be possible to show how this is possible, however, prana and wind are not exactly going to follow the exact same laws. Still it would be interesting to try an experiment like this, it could lead to scientific discovery.
The Srimad Bhagavatam and Surya Siddhanta says, "No, the Earth is close to center of north south center of universe and Moon and Sun both travel on orbits around the Earth." I do not remember Sadaputa dasa Prabhu addressing this matter at all; he seems to be trying to find a compromise with some of the modern scientific cosmological views.
It is very important to consider that the universe is said to be round and covered on the inside by a layer of atoms of Earth. This is directly stated in Matsya Purana precisely.
One thing is, these numbers in Srimad Bhagavatam for the Sun and Moon and planets and constellations are not "distances", 324,000 is given for the Moon. 4,331,500 is given for the Sun, 259,890,012 is given for constellations, etc. These are not distances, they are mathematical constructs. Let us see how this is so. 324,000 / 11,859 = 27.32, the number of days of the Moon's revolution.
I do not think Srila Prabhupada was trying to give any accurate distance. He left this for us to work on. 4,331,500/11,859 = 365.25 the days of the Sun's revolution.
So these numbers have a purpose. Used in a certain way they can help us determine several different things including distance, but they are not distance in and of themselves.
If we find a completely different arrangement to the universe and different distances to the planets, it will surely not be easy to convince modern science or even devotees. If it were the understanding of sastra, then why would we care what the modern scientists think?
Furthest according to Bhagavatam, the Sun is 150,000,000 miles away from Earth approx., and closest it is 112,000,000 miles away approx. Remember, modern science says the Sun is a ball of gases, not a planet with an advanced civilization on it as we understand from Sastra. They also do not believe it changes sizes. They do not believe it moves away from us but rather always remains like the Moon describing a backwards C, sticking more or less to the circumference of Earth.
I have published preliminary figures for the Moon, it is about 112,890,000 miles away from Earth. These numbers do not make sense unless you understand that when the Moon is 112,890,000 miles away, the Sun at the same degree is 120,000,000 miles away. You see, sometimes planets occupy the same space as another planet but not at the same time (Sun, Mercury, Venus). And in the case of the Sun and Moon they may have similar distances but not at the same declination.
When the Moon is 0 degrees celestial (going around our equator) it is 112,000,000, but the Sun going around our equator is 120,000,000. But later the Sun will be approx. 112,000,000 just like the Moon's distance, but at 23.5 degrees declination.
The Bhagavatam and Surya Siddhanta solve the Sun, then the Moon. But if the Moon is 112,000,000 miles away at its closest to Earth, you would have to divide that by 4. That would be how many miles the astronauts and space probes traveled each day to get there in 4 days. This is why Srila Prabhupada did not think they went to the Moon. Therefore either our calculations from Sastra are wrong and space probes are going there, or Srila Prabhupada was right all along and it is impossible to go there in 4 days. In the face of so much evidence from modern science now with so many countries supposedly sending probes to the Moon, I can understand why Sadaputa came to his conclusions.
However, it makes me wonder how Sadaputa gets the figure of 258,000 miles for the Moon's distance from Earth. Keep in mind he sees Bhumandala as the solar system. He has taken Maharaja Priyavrata (first part of 5th canto) and thought this referred to planetary system.
Then since he took that as reference to planetary system, he has taken everything else like that -- the oceans and lands around Jambudvipa as areas of space. But Danavir Gosvami's excellent movie shows how to take it more directly. When we add the movement of planets to this it will be clear. But the mind takes time to absorb the new knowledge.
This film is very good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKyQxI1Q3UU&list=PLIn9zvOkthKfHQdTyzd2PRiKQkEx1dX3X
BY: GAURAGOPALA DASA
Mayesa Prabhu and Sadaputa Prabhu differ greatly in their understanding of Surya-Siddhanta and the 5th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam; Mayesa cannot understand how one can come to the conclusion that the Moon is 258,000 miles from Earth, which is close to the material scientist’s calculations of 238,000 miles, with mathematical calculations found in both Srimad Bhagavatam and Surya-siddhanta. Who is right?
Also why did Srila Prabhupada accept the distance between Earth and Sun at 93,000,000 miles that differs from the Srimad Bhagavatam's calculations?
Sadaputa Prabhu in his book, Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy tries to answer this with the following explanation:
Question - In Srimad Bhagavatam 8.10.38p, Srila Prabhupada says, "The Sun is supposed to be 93,000,000 miles above the surface of the Earth, and from the Srimad-Bhagavatam we understand that the Moon is 1,600,000 miles above the Sun. Therefore the distance between the Earth and the Moon would be about 95,000,000 miles." Doesn't this plainly say that the Moon is farther from the Earth than the Sun?
Answer – "In the summary at the end of Chapter 23 of the Fifth Canto Srila Prabhupada says, "The distance from the Sun to the Earth is 100,000 yojanas." At 8 miles per yojana, this comes to 800,000 miles. We suggest that when Srila Prabhupada cites the modern Western Earth-Sun distance of 93,000,000 miles, he is simply making the point that if you put together the Bhagavatam and modern astronomy you get a contradictory picture. His conclusion is that one should simply accept the Vedic version, and he was not interested in personally delving into astronomical arguments in detail".
The comment about Srila Prabhupada saying the Sun is 93,000,000 does not translate to the yoganas mentioned in the Bhagavatam, he seemed to be just quoting the material scientists distance of the Sun of 93,000,000, then adding the Moon distance on top of that, the point is, does it translate to 93,000,000 miles away? I don't think it says that in the Bhagavatam even though Srila Prabhupada kind of says it, actually if you read his statement he says, 'The Sun is supposed to be 93,000,000 miles above the surface of the Earth, if that is so, then the Moon must be 95,000,000 million miles away.' In other words he is not really saying those figures, he is just using an example using modern science calculations.
Mayesa dasa explains further with a more fundamental understanding–
'Srila Prabhupada sometimes quoted the modern science view that the Sun is 93 million miles away from Earth. In those instances he is not trying to tell us that scientists are exactly right. Like Srila Prabhupada, we are also slaves to guru, sadhu and sastra, so with guru and Krsna's help, it may be possible for us to understand to some degree these things.
In the matter of the Moon it is so difficult but one thing is, modern science has it that the Moon and the Earth are both very small planets. Modern science says that the Moon and the Earth revolve around each other as they revolve around the Sun, which revolves around an unseen center of what they call the Galaxy center. Modern science also believe the universe is continuously expanding.
We disagree with almost all of this. But the important point is, this revolution of the Moon around the Earth and Earth around the Moon, with the Sun "virtually" unmoving save only over long period around some galactic center, means the Moon must therefore be small and it must be very close to Earth for this rotation to be possible.
Our Sastra however, does not agree with this. Actually it is the Sun moving and not the Earth. Also as already explained, modern science takes the Moon and Earth to be going around each and the Earth revolving on its axis, the Earth does not do that according to sastra. Vedic information has Earth close to center of the whole planetary system; this information should come close to the information about the winds and the circular shape of the universe.
It is helpful to understand that Vedic knowledge has it that the planets are propelled by a kind of wind. There is a verse in Vedic literature that the winds of this universe are the prana of the universal form. Now as such, these winds are able to circulate around us. Dhruva is said to revolve at the top. And way low in the universe some demigod animals are regulating this flow to keep it perfect.
By reconstructing a model of this it might be possible to show how this is possible, however, prana and wind are not exactly going to follow the exact same laws. Still it would be interesting to try an experiment like this, it could lead to scientific discovery.
The Srimad Bhagavatam and Surya Siddhanta says, "No, the Earth is close to center of north south center of universe and Moon and Sun both travel on orbits around the Earth." I do not remember Sadaputa dasa Prabhu addressing this matter at all; he seems to be trying to find a compromise with some of the modern scientific cosmological views.
It is very important to consider that the universe is said to be round and covered on the inside by a layer of atoms of Earth. This is directly stated in Matsya Purana precisely.
One thing is, these numbers in Srimad Bhagavatam for the Sun and Moon and planets and constellations are not "distances", 324,000 is given for the Moon. 4,331,500 is given for the Sun, 259,890,012 is given for constellations, etc. These are not distances, they are mathematical constructs. Let us see how this is so. 324,000 / 11,859 = 27.32, the number of days of the Moon's revolution.
I do not think Srila Prabhupada was trying to give any accurate distance. He left this for us to work on. 4,331,500/11,859 = 365.25 the days of the Sun's revolution.
So these numbers have a purpose. Used in a certain way they can help us determine several different things including distance, but they are not distance in and of themselves.
If we find a completely different arrangement to the universe and different distances to the planets, it will surely not be easy to convince modern science or even devotees. If it were the understanding of sastra, then why would we care what the modern scientists think?
Furthest according to Bhagavatam, the Sun is 150,000,000 miles away from Earth approx., and closest it is 112,000,000 miles away approx. Remember, modern science says the Sun is a ball of gases, not a planet with an advanced civilization on it as we understand from Sastra. They also do not believe it changes sizes. They do not believe it moves away from us but rather always remains like the Moon describing a backwards C, sticking more or less to the circumference of Earth.
I have published preliminary figures for the Moon, it is about 112,890,000 miles away from Earth. These numbers do not make sense unless you understand that when the Moon is 112,890,000 miles away, the Sun at the same degree is 120,000,000 miles away. You see, sometimes planets occupy the same space as another planet but not at the same time (Sun, Mercury, Venus). And in the case of the Sun and Moon they may have similar distances but not at the same declination.
When the Moon is 0 degrees celestial (going around our equator) it is 112,000,000, but the Sun going around our equator is 120,000,000. But later the Sun will be approx. 112,000,000 just like the Moon's distance, but at 23.5 degrees declination.
The Bhagavatam and Surya Siddhanta solve the Sun, then the Moon. But if the Moon is 112,000,000 miles away at its closest to Earth, you would have to divide that by 4. That would be how many miles the astronauts and space probes traveled each day to get there in 4 days. This is why Srila Prabhupada did not think they went to the Moon. Therefore either our calculations from Sastra are wrong and space probes are going there, or Srila Prabhupada was right all along and it is impossible to go there in 4 days. In the face of so much evidence from modern science now with so many countries supposedly sending probes to the Moon, I can understand why Sadaputa came to his conclusions.
However, it makes me wonder how Sadaputa gets the figure of 258,000 miles for the Moon's distance from Earth. Keep in mind he sees Bhumandala as the solar system. He has taken Maharaja Priyavrata (first part of 5th canto) and thought this referred to planetary system.
Then since he took that as reference to planetary system, he has taken everything else like that -- the oceans and lands around Jambudvipa as areas of space. But Danavir Gosvami's excellent movie shows how to take it more directly. When we add the movement of planets to this it will be clear. But the mind takes time to absorb the new knowledge.
This film is very good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKyQxI1Q3UU&list=PLIn9zvOkthKfHQdTyzd2PRiKQkEx1dX3X
Friday, October 4, 2013
Tuesday, October 1, 2013
Why the Large Hadron Collider will never discover the subtle material energy that exists all around us.
Many seekers of knowledge, especially in the scientific community, believe there is no God. The fact is Krishna or God permits them to think this way because the living entities have free will and can desire to exist separately from Krishna if they choose.
Long ago we all chose to leave Krishna and foolishly came to this material universe and in doing so we have rejected not only our original home with Krishna in Vaikuntha the Spiritual World, but have also rejected the fact that everything in His material creation is also His design and created by Him. By doing this, we have concocted our own reasons of how the universe exists to suite our desires for fame, profit adoration and distinction.
In this way, we have come up with the theory of evolution and speculate that the cosmos have arranged themselves due to chance over billions of years. Modern atheistic science has come to believe life itself originated due to the result of endless combinations of molecules, which have rearranged themselves at random over billions of years. We have also come to believe that the planets have erratically arranged themselves over billions of years that has eventually lead to the conditions for life to evolve on this planet, all by chance
We think this way because we have abandoned Krishna and have replaced Him with our own speculative explanation of the universe, this is due to our foolish choice to try and enjoy independently from Him.
Modern scientists who deny the existence of God, search within the fabrics of the limited material energy to find answers to the universes origin however; they do not have the ability to see ALL of the material energy that exists around them, such as the subtle material energy that is unknown to modern scientific instruments like the Large Hadron Collider. This subtle material energy, unseen by the material scientists, is vastly populated with bodily vessels, cities and civilizations that exist on planets all around us, including the Sun and moon.
Many cultures and religions know of this subtle energy with many descriptions past down by ancient civilizations from previous ages, some referring to them as ghostly worlds. This simple means they are referring to a part of the material universe that is devoid of the gross and biological matter.
By denying Krishna as the creator, modern scientists come up with many theories of what the material universe is however; they are restricting themselves to only one portion of the material energy, which is the gross material energy.
They will never understand with their technology, the Spiritual world known as Vishnu’s domicile of Vaikuntha and Krishna’s abode of Goloka Vrndavana that is beyond the subtle and gross material coverings of the this temporary universe
Therefore they will never have the means to discover subtle matter that exists beyond the means of all scientific technology no matter how advanced it is or will become. They cannot perceive subtle matter, what to speak of the Spiritual energy, which is the true origins of all life. . .
For that reason the material scientists cannot use their technology like space probes, telescopes, electron microscopes and the Large Hadron Collider, to find subtle matter; it is unrecognizable and impossible to find it when using such gross material items. It is like trying to look for darkness in the light, it is simply impossible to discover subtle material energy using gross material energy.
The illusion of modern science, due to denying the existence of Krishna, is they claim they will discover the mysterious of the universe. In this way they have misled so many people with their speculative experimentations that have only refined one portion of the material universe, the gross feature or characteristic of material energy as we have seen over the last 150 years with advances in technological development. They have although acknowledged that something else exists but have not understood the means to find it.
It states in the Vedas that the only way to enter and see that subtle material energy, where there are many heavenly, hellish and ghostly worlds, is by performing pious or impious activities while in a human body, only then can one perceive these subtle worlds. No technology, no matter how advanced, can perceive these subtle realities or dimension.
The material atheistic scientists do not understand that there is a universal system of punishment and reward (karma) going on within the gross material universe. The biological human species is what governs the karmic destination of living entities to take a future birth. Only by ones pious and impious actions does one carve their way to the body of their next birth. There is no other way to visit these subtle material realities of the material universe; it cannot be reached by mechanical means.
The modern material scientists therefore are looking and restricting themselves to one characteristic of the material universe known as gross matter, they use many theories to try and explain this limited view of the Cosmos and the world we live in however, all they are seeing with all their technology is only a limited characteristic or part of the material universe known as gross matter, they are not perceiving the subtle matter. They are not seeing the full picture of the material universe.
Hare Krishna, your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa
Many seekers of knowledge, especially in the scientific community, believe there is no God. The fact is Krishna or God permits them to think this way because the living entities have free will and can desire to exist separately from Krishna if they choose.
Long ago we all chose to leave Krishna and foolishly came to this material universe and in doing so we have rejected not only our original home with Krishna in Vaikuntha the Spiritual World, but have also rejected the fact that everything in His material creation is also His design and created by Him. By doing this, we have concocted our own reasons of how the universe exists to suite our desires for fame, profit adoration and distinction.
In this way, we have come up with the theory of evolution and speculate that the cosmos have arranged themselves due to chance over billions of years. Modern atheistic science has come to believe life itself originated due to the result of endless combinations of molecules, which have rearranged themselves at random over billions of years. We have also come to believe that the planets have erratically arranged themselves over billions of years that has eventually lead to the conditions for life to evolve on this planet, all by chance
We think this way because we have abandoned Krishna and have replaced Him with our own speculative explanation of the universe, this is due to our foolish choice to try and enjoy independently from Him.
Modern scientists who deny the existence of God, search within the fabrics of the limited material energy to find answers to the universes origin however; they do not have the ability to see ALL of the material energy that exists around them, such as the subtle material energy that is unknown to modern scientific instruments like the Large Hadron Collider. This subtle material energy, unseen by the material scientists, is vastly populated with bodily vessels, cities and civilizations that exist on planets all around us, including the Sun and moon.
Many cultures and religions know of this subtle energy with many descriptions past down by ancient civilizations from previous ages, some referring to them as ghostly worlds. This simple means they are referring to a part of the material universe that is devoid of the gross and biological matter.
By denying Krishna as the creator, modern scientists come up with many theories of what the material universe is however; they are restricting themselves to only one portion of the material energy, which is the gross material energy.
They will never understand with their technology, the Spiritual world known as Vishnu’s domicile of Vaikuntha and Krishna’s abode of Goloka Vrndavana that is beyond the subtle and gross material coverings of the this temporary universe
Therefore they will never have the means to discover subtle matter that exists beyond the means of all scientific technology no matter how advanced it is or will become. They cannot perceive subtle matter, what to speak of the Spiritual energy, which is the true origins of all life. . .
For that reason the material scientists cannot use their technology like space probes, telescopes, electron microscopes and the Large Hadron Collider, to find subtle matter; it is unrecognizable and impossible to find it when using such gross material items. It is like trying to look for darkness in the light, it is simply impossible to discover subtle material energy using gross material energy.
The illusion of modern science, due to denying the existence of Krishna, is they claim they will discover the mysterious of the universe. In this way they have misled so many people with their speculative experimentations that have only refined one portion of the material universe, the gross feature or characteristic of material energy as we have seen over the last 150 years with advances in technological development. They have although acknowledged that something else exists but have not understood the means to find it.
It states in the Vedas that the only way to enter and see that subtle material energy, where there are many heavenly, hellish and ghostly worlds, is by performing pious or impious activities while in a human body, only then can one perceive these subtle worlds. No technology, no matter how advanced, can perceive these subtle realities or dimension.
The material atheistic scientists do not understand that there is a universal system of punishment and reward (karma) going on within the gross material universe. The biological human species is what governs the karmic destination of living entities to take a future birth. Only by ones pious and impious actions does one carve their way to the body of their next birth. There is no other way to visit these subtle material realities of the material universe; it cannot be reached by mechanical means.
The modern material scientists therefore are looking and restricting themselves to one characteristic of the material universe known as gross matter, they use many theories to try and explain this limited view of the Cosmos and the world we live in however, all they are seeing with all their technology is only a limited characteristic or part of the material universe known as gross matter, they are not perceiving the subtle matter. They are not seeing the full picture of the material universe.
Hare Krishna, your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa
Vedic Cosmology Decoding the 5th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, part 8
By Mayesa das edited by Gauragopala dasa
Part One Finding the Moon in Surya Siddhanta
The formula for finding the planets in the Surya Siddhanta cannot be employed for the moon. This is so because all the planets are found taking help of the number 324,000 and 57,753,336 which are for the moon. If we try to derive the moon from this formula the numbers cancel each other out.
Therefore the Surya Siddhanta gives us two separate numbers for the moon. Still our numbers will be canceled out applying them to the formula as is. So we must surmise that these numbers are to be used differently.
First let us set out some specifics about the planetary movements, which we need to know.
1) The sun planet revolves around us in 24 hours 360 degrees; the other planets do not do this. For example the moon moves 346.823 degrees daily (This creates what is called retrograde movement.) At eight o'clock tonight you will see the moon over your head but tomorrow night it will not be there it will be towards the east. Each planet has its specific orbit time.
2) The circumferences, which we use in the formulas, are specific for the planets we are finding but we may also have to take into account the degree of movement such as 360 or 346.823. We shall address this later.
3) The figures (324,000, 4,331,500 etc) in Surya Siddhanta are mathematical constructs. They are to be used as they are. Mathematical constructs means - You have the earth planet, which is 24,902 miles in circumference. When the sun is at 23.5 degrees, the earth at that degree if you were to draw a line from the center of the earth to the sun and than find the circumference (circle on earths surface) at that degree parallel with the circumference 24,902 you do some math.
24,902 / 360 = 69.172. Therefore 69.172 X ((360- (23.5 X 1.91355305500 = 21,791.42915
Now how do we relate the earth circumferences to planetary movements? That is where Mathematical constructs come in
4) The sun does not always move 23.5 degrees nor the moon always move 28.5 or 28.6 but for the purpose of Srimad Bhagavatam and Surya Siddhanta formulas, some degree must be selected in order to derive the solution (We are making all attempts to use the degrees the formulas themselves reveal)
It is our hope that by perfecting one system we can correct any mistakes in the other system that we have made inadvertently.
Part Two. Finding the Moon in Surya Siddhanta
Morning Walk December 17, 1973 Los Angeles, California
Srila Prabhupada: “In Bhagavatam there is regular calculation what is the distance from one planet to another”.
The two numbers given for the moon are 324,000 and 38,328,484. In the formulas for the other planets we use 324,000 but we shall now use the other number provided in Surya Siddhanta 60 X 38,328,484 X 57,753,336 / (107,459,665.6 /2 / pi) X 2) = 3,882,883,458 / 28.5 / 69.172 = 1,969,641.283. The number 107,459,665.6 is the daily movement of the moon.
The number 1,969,641.283 is a single degree of the moon's circumference around the equator of earth. This is called apsis. The text in Surya Siddhanta reads "apsis" 1,969,641.283 X 360 = 709,070,861.7
This is exactly the number we found in Srimad Bhagavatam formula. It appears we can derive more numbers but these are sufficient to give us the moon. 709,070,861.1 – 107,459,665.6 = 601,611,195.5
What we learn is that the moon is traveling a great distance from earth planet. This indicates that the earth and moon are not revolving around each other in a synchronized orbit as they circle the sun, as modern science takes for granted.
Rather as the sun circles earth planet, so too does the moon. In order to circle the sun with moon and earth in a synchronized orbit around each other, the moon must necessarily be a small object. But these numbers reveal the moon as a large object at a great distance.
Bhagavad-gita as it is Chapter 11 txt 19 -
‘You are without origin, middle or end. Your glory is unlimited. You have numberless arms, and the sun and moon are Your eyes. I see You with blazing fire coming forth from Your mouth, burning this entire universe by Your own radiance’.
Part Three Finding the Moon in Surya Siddhanta
It is also possible that by manipulating these numbers we can find for the moon at 18.28 degrees that is the moons shortest declination. The moon is moving up and down north and south back to zero twice in a month. Sometimes it is at various degrees before it reverses direction, its shortest travel is 18.28 degrees.
We have said the moon moves 346.823 degrees around earth planet at the same time it is moving north and south. (60 X 346.8236479) = 20,809.41887 X (57,753,336 X 38,328,484) / 68,925,006.57 / 2 = (18.28 squared)
Again we have used the special number for the moon 38,328,484. The number of miles the moon passes from 0 degrees to 18.28 degrees is 68,925,006.57
By Mayesa das edited by Gauragopala dasa
Part One Finding the Moon in Surya Siddhanta
The formula for finding the planets in the Surya Siddhanta cannot be employed for the moon. This is so because all the planets are found taking help of the number 324,000 and 57,753,336 which are for the moon. If we try to derive the moon from this formula the numbers cancel each other out.
Therefore the Surya Siddhanta gives us two separate numbers for the moon. Still our numbers will be canceled out applying them to the formula as is. So we must surmise that these numbers are to be used differently.
First let us set out some specifics about the planetary movements, which we need to know.
1) The sun planet revolves around us in 24 hours 360 degrees; the other planets do not do this. For example the moon moves 346.823 degrees daily (This creates what is called retrograde movement.) At eight o'clock tonight you will see the moon over your head but tomorrow night it will not be there it will be towards the east. Each planet has its specific orbit time.
2) The circumferences, which we use in the formulas, are specific for the planets we are finding but we may also have to take into account the degree of movement such as 360 or 346.823. We shall address this later.
3) The figures (324,000, 4,331,500 etc) in Surya Siddhanta are mathematical constructs. They are to be used as they are. Mathematical constructs means - You have the earth planet, which is 24,902 miles in circumference. When the sun is at 23.5 degrees, the earth at that degree if you were to draw a line from the center of the earth to the sun and than find the circumference (circle on earths surface) at that degree parallel with the circumference 24,902 you do some math.
24,902 / 360 = 69.172. Therefore 69.172 X ((360- (23.5 X 1.91355305500 = 21,791.42915
Now how do we relate the earth circumferences to planetary movements? That is where Mathematical constructs come in
4) The sun does not always move 23.5 degrees nor the moon always move 28.5 or 28.6 but for the purpose of Srimad Bhagavatam and Surya Siddhanta formulas, some degree must be selected in order to derive the solution (We are making all attempts to use the degrees the formulas themselves reveal)
It is our hope that by perfecting one system we can correct any mistakes in the other system that we have made inadvertently.
Part Two. Finding the Moon in Surya Siddhanta
Morning Walk December 17, 1973 Los Angeles, California
Srila Prabhupada: “In Bhagavatam there is regular calculation what is the distance from one planet to another”.
The two numbers given for the moon are 324,000 and 38,328,484. In the formulas for the other planets we use 324,000 but we shall now use the other number provided in Surya Siddhanta 60 X 38,328,484 X 57,753,336 / (107,459,665.6 /2 / pi) X 2) = 3,882,883,458 / 28.5 / 69.172 = 1,969,641.283. The number 107,459,665.6 is the daily movement of the moon.
The number 1,969,641.283 is a single degree of the moon's circumference around the equator of earth. This is called apsis. The text in Surya Siddhanta reads "apsis" 1,969,641.283 X 360 = 709,070,861.7
This is exactly the number we found in Srimad Bhagavatam formula. It appears we can derive more numbers but these are sufficient to give us the moon. 709,070,861.1 – 107,459,665.6 = 601,611,195.5
What we learn is that the moon is traveling a great distance from earth planet. This indicates that the earth and moon are not revolving around each other in a synchronized orbit as they circle the sun, as modern science takes for granted.
Rather as the sun circles earth planet, so too does the moon. In order to circle the sun with moon and earth in a synchronized orbit around each other, the moon must necessarily be a small object. But these numbers reveal the moon as a large object at a great distance.
Bhagavad-gita as it is Chapter 11 txt 19 -
‘You are without origin, middle or end. Your glory is unlimited. You have numberless arms, and the sun and moon are Your eyes. I see You with blazing fire coming forth from Your mouth, burning this entire universe by Your own radiance’.
Part Three Finding the Moon in Surya Siddhanta
It is also possible that by manipulating these numbers we can find for the moon at 18.28 degrees that is the moons shortest declination. The moon is moving up and down north and south back to zero twice in a month. Sometimes it is at various degrees before it reverses direction, its shortest travel is 18.28 degrees.
We have said the moon moves 346.823 degrees around earth planet at the same time it is moving north and south. (60 X 346.8236479) = 20,809.41887 X (57,753,336 X 38,328,484) / 68,925,006.57 / 2 = (18.28 squared)
Again we have used the special number for the moon 38,328,484. The number of miles the moon passes from 0 degrees to 18.28 degrees is 68,925,006.57
Thursday, September 26, 2013
UNDERTANDING THE POSITION OF THE MOON
This topic is so complex, there is still much more to be known and understood, especially the position, size and distance of the Moon according to sastra.
According to Mayesa dasa, the Moon is very large and is between 95,000,000 to 100,000,000 miles from Earth. Of course this creates a dilemma when taking into account what the material scientists are saying however, the only conclusion is devotees except the conclusions of sastra over science gathered with the faulty material senses.
Maybe the demigods are pulling the wool over the material scientists eyes that makes them see a limited view of the universe only. The fact is, modern technology is not seeing the full picture with their limited gross material vision, telescopes and space probes even if they are going to the moon.
This topic is so complex, there is still much more to be known and understood, especially the position, size and distance of the Moon according to sastra.
According to Mayesa dasa, the Moon is very large and is between 95,000,000 to 100,000,000 miles from Earth. Of course this creates a dilemma when taking into account what the material scientists are saying however, the only conclusion is devotees except the conclusions of sastra over science gathered with the faulty material senses.
Maybe the demigods are pulling the wool over the material scientists eyes that makes them see a limited view of the universe only. The fact is, modern technology is not seeing the full picture with their limited gross material vision, telescopes and space probes even if they are going to the moon.
Tuesday, September 24, 2013
Vedic Cosmology Decoding the 5th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, Part 7
Finding distance, declination and movement of the planets in the Surya Siddhanta.
By Mayesa dasa edited by Gauragopala dasa
Sunrise to sunset is the route the Sun Planet takes in his giant golden chariot harnessed to seven horses. The chariot of the Sun-god (Surya), worshiped by the words om bhur bhuva svah, travels at a speed of 3,400,800 yojanas [27,206,400 miles] in a muhurta (a Muhurta equals approximately 48 minutes)
Part One. Using the formulas in the 5th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam and the Surya Siddhanta in a balanced way for better understanding of planetary distances
We have shown how the Srimad Bhagavatam 5th Canto has a formula for finding the planets. Now we shall turn to Surya Siddhanta for the same information. In this way, we shall be able to confirm or correct our understanding of the formula in 5th Canto.
All the following numbers are all given in various places in the Surya Siddhanta
In chapter 12 of Surya Siddhanta we find a formula. It is said there to "multiply the orbit of the sun by 60" and "multiply the revolutions of the moon in a kalpa" (It is important to know that when a planet moves through its cycle it has an orbit that is permanent and it has an orbit that is changing. When we subtract the unchanging orbit from the greatest circumference we are left with the planets "daily movement")
Next the text reads, "This orbit divided by the respective orbits of the planets in a kalpa gives the respective orbits of the planets. Dividing these orbits by the number of terrestrial days gives the respective movements of the planets."
Let us do this much for the sun planet.
(60 X 4,331,500 X 57,753,336) / 4,320,000 = 34,744,246,510 / (1,577,917,828 / 4,320,000) = 9,512,228.22.
We already have the daily movement of the planet it is 34,744,246,510 X 2 X Pi = 218,304,539,200. This is too much, for our figure in Srimad Bhagavatam 5th Canto, but there is a reason for this in the mathematics of Surya Siddhanta.
Now the formula reads "Multiply daily motion by orbit of moon and divide by planet's own orbit" So, 9,512,228.22 X 324,000 / 4,331,500 = 1,423,046.032 (1,423,046.032 / 23.5) = 60,555.1513 / 280.1257085 = 216.1713454 (Surya Siddhanta does not specifically give this formula but it mentions, "This will yield their daily motions in kalaas" We have not found a definition for kalaa so we have had to apply logic.)
Now we have declination and movement. The earth planet at 23.5 degrees north is 28,012.57085 and south it is 21,617.13454. Of course the earth is never really bigger than 24,902 but by this formula we can understand the "movement" from the side of a planet.
We know it goes around the earth but when is it close and when is it far away? This formula cleverly paints the picture for us. Without this calculation we would not know the north and south movement of the planets. It is not found in Srimad Bhagavatam as far as we can determine. (With the exception of the sun planet)
Part Two. The formulas in Surya Siddhanta and the 5th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam working together to establish Planetary distances
In the first part of the formula we have found the number 34,744,246,510. Because we already know this is different than what we get in the 5th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, we shall subtract the smaller number (Srimad Bhagavatam) from the greater (Surya Siddhanta) and that gives us 366,778.8022.
We are bothering with this because unlike the numbers in the rest of the formulas, this number is a couple of decimal points too large. We will correct it for the decimal points and still we will utilize both the original number from Surya Siddhanta and the number we got by subtraction in the final formula.
So we think that starting with the Sun, Sunday. Moon, Monday. Mars, Tuesday, Mercury, Wednesday, Jupiter, Thursday, Venus, Friday, Saturn, Saturday, we are being given another part of the formula without it being directly said in the text.
Now multiply both these numbers by 2 and by Pi and we utilize them in the final formula in Ch 12 Surya Siddhanta. (218,304,539.2 X (2,304,539.181 / Pi)) / 2,304,539.181 = 69,488,493.03 - (2,304,539.181 / Pi) = 68,754,935.42 / 2 = 34,377,467.71
When we multiply by 2 and by Pi we have an exact match to Srimad Bhagavatam to the decimal point. 34,377,467.71 X 2 X Pi = 216,000,000. Now 864,000,000 – 216,000,000 = 648,000,000
The significance of the number 2,304,539.181 is that the earth is situated on an invisible circumference away from the center of the universe. Meru and Dhruva are south and north respectively. Earth planet is not situated in the center.
If you draw a circle in front of you and place a penny to the right of center, though the circle is a circle, it will not appear to be a circle to the penny, it will appear to act as an ellipse, as the modern scientists say the planetary orbits behave.
When we look into space it appears we see elliptical trajectories or galaxies. Hold a quarter in your hand straight on - it is a circle. Turn it a little to the side, what do you see? An ellipse. Has the circle changed?
Once this was no longer understood mathematicians and scientists had to create a different explanation to account for planetary movements.
Finding distance, declination and movement of the planets in the Surya Siddhanta.
By Mayesa dasa edited by Gauragopala dasa
Sunrise to sunset is the route the Sun Planet takes in his giant golden chariot harnessed to seven horses. The chariot of the Sun-god (Surya), worshiped by the words om bhur bhuva svah, travels at a speed of 3,400,800 yojanas [27,206,400 miles] in a muhurta (a Muhurta equals approximately 48 minutes)
Part One. Using the formulas in the 5th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam and the Surya Siddhanta in a balanced way for better understanding of planetary distances
We have shown how the Srimad Bhagavatam 5th Canto has a formula for finding the planets. Now we shall turn to Surya Siddhanta for the same information. In this way, we shall be able to confirm or correct our understanding of the formula in 5th Canto.
All the following numbers are all given in various places in the Surya Siddhanta
In chapter 12 of Surya Siddhanta we find a formula. It is said there to "multiply the orbit of the sun by 60" and "multiply the revolutions of the moon in a kalpa" (It is important to know that when a planet moves through its cycle it has an orbit that is permanent and it has an orbit that is changing. When we subtract the unchanging orbit from the greatest circumference we are left with the planets "daily movement")
Next the text reads, "This orbit divided by the respective orbits of the planets in a kalpa gives the respective orbits of the planets. Dividing these orbits by the number of terrestrial days gives the respective movements of the planets."
Let us do this much for the sun planet.
(60 X 4,331,500 X 57,753,336) / 4,320,000 = 34,744,246,510 / (1,577,917,828 / 4,320,000) = 9,512,228.22.
We already have the daily movement of the planet it is 34,744,246,510 X 2 X Pi = 218,304,539,200. This is too much, for our figure in Srimad Bhagavatam 5th Canto, but there is a reason for this in the mathematics of Surya Siddhanta.
Now the formula reads "Multiply daily motion by orbit of moon and divide by planet's own orbit" So, 9,512,228.22 X 324,000 / 4,331,500 = 1,423,046.032 (1,423,046.032 / 23.5) = 60,555.1513 / 280.1257085 = 216.1713454 (Surya Siddhanta does not specifically give this formula but it mentions, "This will yield their daily motions in kalaas" We have not found a definition for kalaa so we have had to apply logic.)
Now we have declination and movement. The earth planet at 23.5 degrees north is 28,012.57085 and south it is 21,617.13454. Of course the earth is never really bigger than 24,902 but by this formula we can understand the "movement" from the side of a planet.
We know it goes around the earth but when is it close and when is it far away? This formula cleverly paints the picture for us. Without this calculation we would not know the north and south movement of the planets. It is not found in Srimad Bhagavatam as far as we can determine. (With the exception of the sun planet)
Part Two. The formulas in Surya Siddhanta and the 5th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam working together to establish Planetary distances
In the first part of the formula we have found the number 34,744,246,510. Because we already know this is different than what we get in the 5th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, we shall subtract the smaller number (Srimad Bhagavatam) from the greater (Surya Siddhanta) and that gives us 366,778.8022.
We are bothering with this because unlike the numbers in the rest of the formulas, this number is a couple of decimal points too large. We will correct it for the decimal points and still we will utilize both the original number from Surya Siddhanta and the number we got by subtraction in the final formula.
So we think that starting with the Sun, Sunday. Moon, Monday. Mars, Tuesday, Mercury, Wednesday, Jupiter, Thursday, Venus, Friday, Saturn, Saturday, we are being given another part of the formula without it being directly said in the text.
Now multiply both these numbers by 2 and by Pi and we utilize them in the final formula in Ch 12 Surya Siddhanta. (218,304,539.2 X (2,304,539.181 / Pi)) / 2,304,539.181 = 69,488,493.03 - (2,304,539.181 / Pi) = 68,754,935.42 / 2 = 34,377,467.71
When we multiply by 2 and by Pi we have an exact match to Srimad Bhagavatam to the decimal point. 34,377,467.71 X 2 X Pi = 216,000,000. Now 864,000,000 – 216,000,000 = 648,000,000
The significance of the number 2,304,539.181 is that the earth is situated on an invisible circumference away from the center of the universe. Meru and Dhruva are south and north respectively. Earth planet is not situated in the center.
If you draw a circle in front of you and place a penny to the right of center, though the circle is a circle, it will not appear to be a circle to the penny, it will appear to act as an ellipse, as the modern scientists say the planetary orbits behave.
When we look into space it appears we see elliptical trajectories or galaxies. Hold a quarter in your hand straight on - it is a circle. Turn it a little to the side, what do you see? An ellipse. Has the circle changed?
Once this was no longer understood mathematicians and scientists had to create a different explanation to account for planetary movements.
Wednesday, September 18, 2013
Discussing the Moon planet
July 1, 1976
Hari-sauri: Now they are putting out the same kind of propaganda about Mars that formerly they were putting out about the moon -- that there may be life -- so that they can use that as an excuse to go.
I just read a little bit where they say that due to information sent back by the last spaceship that they sent to Mars, now they think that there's more water vapor in the atmosphere than they at first thought.
So that means that there's a good possibility that there may be some bacterial life on Mars. So (laughs) they don't... And then they state that the temperature ranges from-130 to +40 degrees farenheit. So that means that there could be life there in a bacterial form.
Prabhupada: And why there is no life in moon planet? Some scientists say the temperature is two hundred degrees less than the zero.
Hari-sauri: Yes, at night when they said, because there's no atmosphere.
Prabhupada: But why these rascals say it is full of dust, and how from the dust so much light is coming, illuminating the whole universe? What is their logic? They have already brought the dust. That dust does not illuminate.
Hari-sauri: Well, they say just like when the sunlight hits the earth, then the earth appears very bright from outer space. It appears very illuminating.
Prabhupada: Who says?
Hari-sauri: This is the scientists' excuse. They showed some pictures taken from outer space that shows the earth glowing very brightly, like the moon. So they say in the same way when the...
Prabhupada: Why the glow of the surface of the earth does not illuminate? It does not come between illumination?
Hari-sauri: Just like when the sun is here everything is bright.
Prabhupada: That's all right, when the sun is there.
Pusta Krsna: The moon is actually illuminating.
Prabhupada: Why it does not illuminate?
Hari-sauri: They only say it reflects the sunlight.
Prabhupada: Kick their face with shoes. That is the only reward for them. And foolish persons accepting. Just like sun is illuminating. It doesn't require illumination from any other planet. Similarly, if earth is also illuminating, why does it require moonlight in darkness? This common sense does not come into the brain of these rascals who believe that?
Hari-sauri: They put their scientific reasoning to explain the different things.
Prabhupada: What is their scientific reasoning? Talking like fools and rascals? If something is illuminating, why extra illumination required to illuminate.
Pusta Krsna: Their theory is that there's a dark side of the moon that we've never seen.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Pusta Krsna: Their theory is that there's a dark..., that actually the moon is reflecting the sun's light. So there's a dark side of the moon.
Prabhupada: So far the world is, where is the dark side and the bright side? If you compare like that, then so far this globe is concerned, which one is dark side, which one is bright side?
Hari-sauri: No, they say the earth is spinning on its own axis, so all parts of the earth at one time or another receive sunlight.
Prabhupada: The moon does not do that?
Hari-sauri: The moon does not revolve on its own axis.
Prabhupada: Another foolishness.
Pusta Krsna: Just to fit their speculation.
Prabhupada: Just see. Simply speculation and misleading people.
Hari-sauri: There's no basis for it, there's no truth to it at all. (laughs)
Prabhupada: And you people believed that? I'm surprised. (laughter) You are also fools and rascals.
Hari-sauri: This is what they teach in all the schools.
Pusta Krsna: They have little models, Srila Prabhupada, made out of plastic.
Prabhupada: Ah, they are... Let them, we take them as rascals, that's all. Mudha.
Hari-sauri: That other argument that you use about how the moon rays give life to the vegetables... So how is it that there's no life on the moon? If the rays from the moon give life, then how is it there's no life where the rays come from?
Prabhupada: They have never gone to moon. (laughs) All bogus. And this Mars expedition will be a failure. Let them spend millions of dollars. I told about moon planet ten years ago. It is childish, simply a waste of money and energy. I told this. Now it has proved.
Hari-sauri: There's no more interest in the moon at all.
Prabhupada: No? Kirtanananda said "It is inhabitable." Ten years ago I said there's no use going there. It is childish, waste of money. But who hears about us? We know moon planet is inhabited by high-class living entities. (laughs) (sarcastically:) And they will allow these rascals to go by their machine.
Hari-sauri: When they originally started sending sputniks to the moon, they couldn't even land them properly. They would crash, they said that they were crash-landing spaceships into the moon's surface.
Prabhupada: Crashed?
Hari-sauri: Crash-landing. The spaceship was supposed to just smash into the surface of the moon, like that.
Prabhupada: They have never gone. Simply propaganda. Even they have gone, what is the result? Simply with big report that it is inhabitable. (Prabhupada is eating something:) What is this fiber? Finding? What are other things are there in the... Hmm? What is this? (Hari-sauri laughs) Hmm? Do they add anything more? Something reddish there?
Hari-sauri: Sometimes there's a few bugs in it. (laughs) There's some..., it's probably some strands from the mango, fiber from the mango.
Prabhupada: Do they add mango?
Hari-sauri: Yes, sometimes they put different fruits in it.
Pradyumna: Little oranges in there. You can put orange?
Hari-sauri: Strawberry and mango and this and that. They make it with some kind of ice cream machine.
Prabhupada: Hmm? This is not from machine?
Hari-sauri: No, this is from machine.
Pradyumna: You first made ice cream in New York, Srila Prabhupada? Someone told me that in 26 Second Avenue, did you make..., you made them ice cream when it was very hot?
Prabhupada: Hot?
Pradyumna: It was hot, no, the weather was hot, so you made.
Prabhupada: No, you can make ice cream in this, what is called, refrigerator. You can make.
Hari-sauri: Just make thick cream and put it in the fridge.
Pusta Krsna: "Ice" cream.
Prabhupada: (Prabhupada speaks some gibberish). Big, big words.
Pradyumna: They put everything in language. Then everyone is fooled. No one knows...
Hari-sauri: Speak as many big words as possible and don't make any point at all, and then everybody will proclaim.
Prabhupada: So gradually they'll go up to Saturn?
Pusta Krsna: If the money holds out. Actually, they've already sent some exploring rocketships way out to Saturn years ago.
Hari-sauri: Takes several years to reach.
Pusta Krsna: It's such a bluff.
Hari-sauri: How long does it take them to go to Mars?
Pradyumna: Mars and Venus also, they say.
Hari-sauri: Venus is the other one they concentrate... They think that Venus, there's a good chance there may be some life there.
Pradyumna: Venus is covered by clouds. So no one can see what is there. There's clouds all around the planet. Heavy, what do they call, so that no one can see. So they sent a rocket inside or something to go through the clouds to see what is there. Russians also tried. Fermament. In the Bible, they say that on earth there was also..., above the earth there were all clouds at one time according to the Bible. And then at that time men used to live very, very long, and then the clouds went away at some point. They call it a firmament. So the same thing is on Venus. No one can see what the planet is like, no one has ever known. That is also a heavenly, we say also... That is Sukracarya's place?
Prabhupada: Not Sukracarya's, just Sukra.
Pradyumna: Just Sukra.
Prabhupada: May be Sukracarya's place. What benefit they will have? Nothing. This is science. Without any aim, without any objective.
Hari-sauri: What they're doing is entirely pointless. There's no proper reason for any of it. Because they aren't improving their actual living standards by it. They are... It's just like a jnani, he thinks advancement of knowledge, just to simply acquire any amount of knowledge.
Prabhupada: Kevala-bodha-labdhaye. They are described: Klisyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Simply works hard simply to know things. No benefit. These rascals are like that. Kevala-bodha-labdhaye.
Hari-sauri: That's the futility of the university system now. They are going and they're accumulating knowledge which is worthless for living. It has no practical value, so all the youth are becoming very frustrated.
Prabhupada: Any sane man will be frustrated. Why you are spending money and going there? Kevala-bodha-labdhaya, klisyanti kevala, bhaktim.... Klisyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye tesam asau klesala eva sisyate nanyad yatha sthula-tusavaghatinam. Just like the husk... The outer portion of rice? If there is rice, you husk, beat it, rice will come. The rice is not there, simply husk, what is the use of this beating? It is like that. Rice will not come, simply they are trying to beat it. So the result is they become tired, that's all. They only result is they'll become tired. Klesala eva sisyate, that's all. The result of hard labor is tiresome. So they'll get that only, that's all. They are satisfied, "Now we are tiresome, let us sleep." What you have gotten? "Dust." That's all. This is the philosophy. Bhaktim, what is that verse?
Pradyumna: Srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]?
Prabhupada: Huh? That's not it. Klesala, klesala.
Pradyumna: Klesadikataras, klesa?
Prabhupada: Klisyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye tesam asau klesala eva sisyate nanyad yatha sthula-tusavaghatinam.
Hari-sauri: It's from the Bhagavatam?
Prabhupada: Yes, it is mentioned in the Caitanya-caritamrta. Any process you accept, rejecting devotional service, the result will be that there is no profit. You simply labor for nothing, as much as to beat the husk, you'll never get the rice, you will simply be tiresome, that's all. Just like so-called religion. There is no faith in God. There is no need of God, and "religion." This is nonsense. Religion means without God? This is going on. God, you can accept anyone, Ramakrishna Mission. Any rascal...He was a fool, illiterate rascal, Ramakrishna. He became God. No standard, and they are propagating Ramakrishna Mission. As we are preaching Krsna is God, they are preaching Ramakrishna. And who's accepting them? For the last hundred years, they are preaching. So who has become a devotee of Ramakrishna?
Pusta Krsna: It's absurd to even think about becoming a devotee of Ramakrishna.
Prabhupada: You have got Caitanya-caritamrta?
Pradyumna: I think it is Tenth Canto. Sreyah srutim bhaktim? I've been making a list of all the verses that you quote most.
Prabhupada: That's nice.
Pradyumna:
sreyah srutim bhaktim udasya te vibho
klisyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye
tesam asau klesala eva sisyate
nanyad yatha sthula-tusavaghatinam
[SB 10.14.4]
Prabhupada: There is note?
Pradyumna: Bhaktim vina jnanam tu naiva siddhyed ity aha (indistinct) sreyah srutim iti; sreyasam abhyudayapavarga-laksananam srtih saranam, yasyah sarasa iva nirjharanam, tam te tava bhaktim udasya tyaktva sreyasam marga-bhutam iti va; tesam klesalah klesa evavasisyate. Ayam bhavan (indistinct) yatha alpapramanam dhanyam parityajya antah (indistinct) kanahinam sthula-dhanyabhasams tusaneva (indistinct) vaghnanti, tesam na kincit phalam, evam bhaktim tucchi-krtya ye kevala-bodhaya prayatante, tesam apiti.
Prabhupada: Yes. Simply tiresome, that's all. Religion, no God. There are so many religions.
Hari-sauri: Soon as they forget the actual religion then there are so many concoctions.
Prabhupada: "This is our religion." What is religion? "No God." What is religion? Then, those who are godless, they have got religion. Atheism has got religion. Then why bring this religion? What is the meaning of religion? Just see.
Pradyumna: One time we went to a church in Boston to speak. They had only a pulpit for the preacher, and behind, no altar, no crucifix, nothing, just big map of outer space with planets on the wall. Not even any Christian church, but no cross, nothing. Only universe. Universalist Church, it's called. The Universalists.
Prabhupada: That's nice, but give some information of the universe.
Hari-sauri: Says, "Religion: 1. monastic condition, being a monk or a nun, enter into a monastic order; 2. practice of sacred rites; 3. one of the prevalent systems of faith and worship, i.e. Christian, Muhammadan, etc.; 4. human recognition of superhuman controlling power and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience, effect of such recognition on conduct and mental attitude."
Prabhupada: This is religion. Personal conception of God.
Hari-sauri: And then "5. action that one is bound to do."
Prabhupada: Yes. Everything is there. Any one of them you take. That's good idea, but special conception of personal God, huh? What is that?
Hari-sauri: "Human recognition of superhuman controlling power and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience."
Prabhupada: That's all, clear. What are the other items?
Hari-sauri: Then, "the effect of such recognition on conduct and mental attitude." And then "action that one is bound to do."
Prabhupada: One is bound to do. Dharmena hina pasubhih samana. If he does not do, then he's animal. It must be done. There is no question of optional. If you are human being, you must be religious, you must recognize the supreme controller. Otherwise, you are animal. What is the other interpretations? Beginning one?
Hari-sauri: "Monastic condition, being a monk or a nun."
Prabhupada: Just like every religion has got some condition, monastic, is it not?
Hari-sauri: Yes, every religion has a system of priests.
Prabhupada: (Coughs severely for a few minutes) Monastic condition?
Hari-sauri: "Practice of sacred rites."
Prabhupada: So, without reference to God, what is the meaning of sacred rites? Everything is reference that accepting the supreme controller. That is the real meaning. At least, Christian religion accepts God, Muhammadan religion accepts God, or Hindu religion accepts God. So without God, how it can be religion? If there is no understanding of God, the conclusion comes that there is no religion. Fictitious. "We trust in God," but do not know what is God. This is going on. So we have to fight against all this nonsense. Nonsense scientists, nonsense religionists. What do you think? It is not easy-going, sleeping business. We have to fight with so many demons. Otherwise, kava dava adakanam (?), my Guru Maharaja used to say. Beg some rice and bring it and cook it and eat and sleep.
Pradyumna: Kava daka?
Prabhupada: Kava dava adakanam. As all our Godbrothers are doing. They have got a little temple, and a few devotees go and beg rice and cook it and eat and sleep, that's all.
Pusta Krsna: Like being dead almost.
Prabhupada: No fighting spirit. Thakura dekhiya (indistinct). Just make a Deity, show. Our Tirtha Maharaja is doing that. His whole idea was, that "I have now captured the birthplace of Caitanya Mahaprabhu by high-court favor. Now I have got everything. People will come and they'll pay something, and that will be my income for my family." As the caste gosvamis do in Navadvipa and other... A means of livelihood. He has no devotion. He wanted as a means of income. Like the Vrndavana gosvamis, Navadvipa gosvamis do. Little devotion, automatically, there is. They are, after all, worshiping the Deity. But their purpose is different. Just like we have established Radha-Vrndavanacandra not that people will come and pay something. Who will come here, in this foreign country or in this secluded place? So our aim is to make the devotees real devotees. Not for earning money. When we establish a center in a place like this, where is the idea of getting money? (laughs) Who will come here? One, it is a foreign country, nobody knows what is Krsna. And one has to come with so great difficulty, on the mountain. And who is coming to pay for it? After spending so much money, they will come here to pay? Our process is that wherever we stay, we worship Krsna. As far as possible. That we are doing. Not for earning money but spending money. Now Tirtha Maharaja is seeing that without getting Caitanya Mahaprabhu's birthsite, Swami Maharaja, he is attracting lakhs of people. Without the favor of high-court, he is attracting. That is his envy. This year, you were not present?
Pusta Krsna: At Mayapura?
Prabhupada: Oh, you were present?
Pusta Krsna: Oh, yes. There was always...
Hari-sauri: That leaflet that he put out that we saw, he put one leaflet advertising that...
Prabhupada: No, no. Apart from that leaflet... Let him do whatever nonsense... But actually, on the birthday of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, there was the greatest crowd in our temple.
Pusta Krsna: Oh, yes, there was a constant... It was just always packed.
Pradyumna: Every year, before, last year, year before, year before, Caitanya Math, only, not...
Prabhupada: Nobody goes.
Pradyumna: No, only their Math people, and some people they invite from Calcutta. But the regular people all come in to our place.
Prabhupada: Sometimes we went to Madhava Maharaja's temple?
Hari-sauri: In Vrndavana.
Prabhupada: In Vrndavana. Who was there?
Pusta Krsna: Empty. Completely no one.
Hari-sauri: They didn't even have any of their own men living there.
Pusta Krsna: They had to unlock the Deity.
Prabhupada: And that is on the prominent roadside. And our temple is off. Still, so many people are coming. Neither there were inhabitants nor their outsider, visitors. Gate was closed, we had to open and then enter. And he constructed temple at least for the last twenty years.
Pusta Krsna: They have no vision of expanding, except maybe their...
Prabhupada: They make this money-making machine. They do not know the money will automatically come you are sincere. You haven't got to make it a machine. Money Krsna will send. But they have no faith in Krsna. They have faith in their own ability. "Yes, we shall earn money in this way, by showing the Deity." They don't recognize Krsna's everything. They think "By high-court judgement, if we capture this place, then money will come."
Hari-sauri: Practically speaking, they're finished. They're on their last legs.
Prabhupada: Similarly, other svamis and yogis they are finding that this Bhaktivedanta Svami alone is preaching all over the... "We, combined, we could not do anything."
Pradyumna: They are all wondering what your secret is. They always wonder, they cannot understand.
Prabhupada: All the yogis, svamis are there. How it is possible? The Ramakrishna Mission, they are working here for the last hundred years. What they have done? If they had actually preached something, so so many American boys and gentlemen are coming to our temple, we cannot give them place. We have to find out some other, and who is going to the Ramakrishna temple?
Pradyumna: They have empty house.
Prabhupada: If actually Vivekananda preached something, out of inquisitiveness they would have gone there. So "We have heard so much about Ramakrishna and Vivekananda. Let us see what is there." Nobody goes. They do not know even the name. And we are already advertised all over the world, Hare Krsna Movement. At least, everyone knows. Who knows Ramakrishna, Vivekananda?
sreyah srutim bhaktim udasya te vibho
klisyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye
tesam asau klesala eva sisyate
nanyad yatha sthula-tusavaghatinam
[SB 10.14.4]
This is Brahma-stotra?
Pradyumna: Yes, Fourteenth Adhyaya. From brahmovaca, brahma-stuti.
Prabhupada: Just stick to this principle, then you will be successful. Bhakti sreyah srutim. That is the real welfare. Sreyah srutim means "expands auspicity." (apparently talking about a picture) And they want to become one with God. And here is not one, but God is so lower that He carries the shoe of His devotee. Have they got any conception like this? (laughs)
Hari-sauri: They are always talking about...
Prabhupada: There is a verse sruti mahapure sruti mahapure. You know this?
Pradyumna: Sruti apare?
Prabhupada: Sruti mahapure. (indistinct) yasya linde param brahma. "Let others worship the srutis and others smrtis, all these Vedic literature, and others Mahabharata for liberation. But I shall worship Nanda Maharaja, because in his courtyard the Param Brahma is loitering. I shall worship Nanda Maharaja. He's so powerful that he's made the Param Brahman come here and carry his shoes." Sruti mahapure (indistinct) yasya linde param brahma.
Pusta Krsna: That was by a Muslim who became Vaisnava? Once you quoted that, I think that verse, in London.
Prabhupada: That is another similar verse. Yes, you quoted me. And there is another verse by Bilvamangala, in Krsna-karnamrta. The Muslim, he said "I was searching after the Param Brahma, and now I see here He is playing with the gopis." What they will speculate? Everything is there in Srimad-Bhagavatam. Where this picture is given? (Prabhupada is being massaged)
Pradyumna: Which book is it in?
Pusta Krsna: It was on the cover of one Back to Godhead magazine.
Hari-sauri: But it's in one of the books.
Pradyumna: Lord Caitanya did the same thing. He did the same thing, and it was compared Krsna also had done.
Prabhupada: If there is no such acceptance, where is religion?
Hari-sauri: It just becomes a show. Religion nowadays has degenerated so that people more or less accept it just as some moral code now, because there's no knowledge of God.
Prabhupada: So where is that morality?
Hari-sauri: (laughs) There's no morality either.
Prabhupada: While hunting, drinking, meat-eating, is that morality?
Hari-sauri: No. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, New Vrindaban
July 1, 1976
Hari-sauri: Now they are putting out the same kind of propaganda about Mars that formerly they were putting out about the moon -- that there may be life -- so that they can use that as an excuse to go.
I just read a little bit where they say that due to information sent back by the last spaceship that they sent to Mars, now they think that there's more water vapor in the atmosphere than they at first thought.
So that means that there's a good possibility that there may be some bacterial life on Mars. So (laughs) they don't... And then they state that the temperature ranges from-130 to +40 degrees farenheit. So that means that there could be life there in a bacterial form.
Prabhupada: And why there is no life in moon planet? Some scientists say the temperature is two hundred degrees less than the zero.
Hari-sauri: Yes, at night when they said, because there's no atmosphere.
Prabhupada: But why these rascals say it is full of dust, and how from the dust so much light is coming, illuminating the whole universe? What is their logic? They have already brought the dust. That dust does not illuminate.
Hari-sauri: Well, they say just like when the sunlight hits the earth, then the earth appears very bright from outer space. It appears very illuminating.
Prabhupada: Who says?
Hari-sauri: This is the scientists' excuse. They showed some pictures taken from outer space that shows the earth glowing very brightly, like the moon. So they say in the same way when the...
Prabhupada: Why the glow of the surface of the earth does not illuminate? It does not come between illumination?
Hari-sauri: Just like when the sun is here everything is bright.
Prabhupada: That's all right, when the sun is there.
Pusta Krsna: The moon is actually illuminating.
Prabhupada: Why it does not illuminate?
Hari-sauri: They only say it reflects the sunlight.
Prabhupada: Kick their face with shoes. That is the only reward for them. And foolish persons accepting. Just like sun is illuminating. It doesn't require illumination from any other planet. Similarly, if earth is also illuminating, why does it require moonlight in darkness? This common sense does not come into the brain of these rascals who believe that?
Hari-sauri: They put their scientific reasoning to explain the different things.
Prabhupada: What is their scientific reasoning? Talking like fools and rascals? If something is illuminating, why extra illumination required to illuminate.
Pusta Krsna: Their theory is that there's a dark side of the moon that we've never seen.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Pusta Krsna: Their theory is that there's a dark..., that actually the moon is reflecting the sun's light. So there's a dark side of the moon.
Prabhupada: So far the world is, where is the dark side and the bright side? If you compare like that, then so far this globe is concerned, which one is dark side, which one is bright side?
Hari-sauri: No, they say the earth is spinning on its own axis, so all parts of the earth at one time or another receive sunlight.
Prabhupada: The moon does not do that?
Hari-sauri: The moon does not revolve on its own axis.
Prabhupada: Another foolishness.
Pusta Krsna: Just to fit their speculation.
Prabhupada: Just see. Simply speculation and misleading people.
Hari-sauri: There's no basis for it, there's no truth to it at all. (laughs)
Prabhupada: And you people believed that? I'm surprised. (laughter) You are also fools and rascals.
Hari-sauri: This is what they teach in all the schools.
Pusta Krsna: They have little models, Srila Prabhupada, made out of plastic.
Prabhupada: Ah, they are... Let them, we take them as rascals, that's all. Mudha.
Hari-sauri: That other argument that you use about how the moon rays give life to the vegetables... So how is it that there's no life on the moon? If the rays from the moon give life, then how is it there's no life where the rays come from?
Prabhupada: They have never gone to moon. (laughs) All bogus. And this Mars expedition will be a failure. Let them spend millions of dollars. I told about moon planet ten years ago. It is childish, simply a waste of money and energy. I told this. Now it has proved.
Hari-sauri: There's no more interest in the moon at all.
Prabhupada: No? Kirtanananda said "It is inhabitable." Ten years ago I said there's no use going there. It is childish, waste of money. But who hears about us? We know moon planet is inhabited by high-class living entities. (laughs) (sarcastically:) And they will allow these rascals to go by their machine.
Hari-sauri: When they originally started sending sputniks to the moon, they couldn't even land them properly. They would crash, they said that they were crash-landing spaceships into the moon's surface.
Prabhupada: Crashed?
Hari-sauri: Crash-landing. The spaceship was supposed to just smash into the surface of the moon, like that.
Prabhupada: They have never gone. Simply propaganda. Even they have gone, what is the result? Simply with big report that it is inhabitable. (Prabhupada is eating something:) What is this fiber? Finding? What are other things are there in the... Hmm? What is this? (Hari-sauri laughs) Hmm? Do they add anything more? Something reddish there?
Hari-sauri: Sometimes there's a few bugs in it. (laughs) There's some..., it's probably some strands from the mango, fiber from the mango.
Prabhupada: Do they add mango?
Hari-sauri: Yes, sometimes they put different fruits in it.
Pradyumna: Little oranges in there. You can put orange?
Hari-sauri: Strawberry and mango and this and that. They make it with some kind of ice cream machine.
Prabhupada: Hmm? This is not from machine?
Hari-sauri: No, this is from machine.
Pradyumna: You first made ice cream in New York, Srila Prabhupada? Someone told me that in 26 Second Avenue, did you make..., you made them ice cream when it was very hot?
Prabhupada: Hot?
Pradyumna: It was hot, no, the weather was hot, so you made.
Prabhupada: No, you can make ice cream in this, what is called, refrigerator. You can make.
Hari-sauri: Just make thick cream and put it in the fridge.
Pusta Krsna: "Ice" cream.
Prabhupada: (Prabhupada speaks some gibberish). Big, big words.
Pradyumna: They put everything in language. Then everyone is fooled. No one knows...
Hari-sauri: Speak as many big words as possible and don't make any point at all, and then everybody will proclaim.
Prabhupada: So gradually they'll go up to Saturn?
Pusta Krsna: If the money holds out. Actually, they've already sent some exploring rocketships way out to Saturn years ago.
Hari-sauri: Takes several years to reach.
Pusta Krsna: It's such a bluff.
Hari-sauri: How long does it take them to go to Mars?
Pradyumna: Mars and Venus also, they say.
Hari-sauri: Venus is the other one they concentrate... They think that Venus, there's a good chance there may be some life there.
Pradyumna: Venus is covered by clouds. So no one can see what is there. There's clouds all around the planet. Heavy, what do they call, so that no one can see. So they sent a rocket inside or something to go through the clouds to see what is there. Russians also tried. Fermament. In the Bible, they say that on earth there was also..., above the earth there were all clouds at one time according to the Bible. And then at that time men used to live very, very long, and then the clouds went away at some point. They call it a firmament. So the same thing is on Venus. No one can see what the planet is like, no one has ever known. That is also a heavenly, we say also... That is Sukracarya's place?
Prabhupada: Not Sukracarya's, just Sukra.
Pradyumna: Just Sukra.
Prabhupada: May be Sukracarya's place. What benefit they will have? Nothing. This is science. Without any aim, without any objective.
Hari-sauri: What they're doing is entirely pointless. There's no proper reason for any of it. Because they aren't improving their actual living standards by it. They are... It's just like a jnani, he thinks advancement of knowledge, just to simply acquire any amount of knowledge.
Prabhupada: Kevala-bodha-labdhaye. They are described: Klisyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Simply works hard simply to know things. No benefit. These rascals are like that. Kevala-bodha-labdhaye.
Hari-sauri: That's the futility of the university system now. They are going and they're accumulating knowledge which is worthless for living. It has no practical value, so all the youth are becoming very frustrated.
Prabhupada: Any sane man will be frustrated. Why you are spending money and going there? Kevala-bodha-labdhaya, klisyanti kevala, bhaktim.... Klisyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye tesam asau klesala eva sisyate nanyad yatha sthula-tusavaghatinam. Just like the husk... The outer portion of rice? If there is rice, you husk, beat it, rice will come. The rice is not there, simply husk, what is the use of this beating? It is like that. Rice will not come, simply they are trying to beat it. So the result is they become tired, that's all. They only result is they'll become tired. Klesala eva sisyate, that's all. The result of hard labor is tiresome. So they'll get that only, that's all. They are satisfied, "Now we are tiresome, let us sleep." What you have gotten? "Dust." That's all. This is the philosophy. Bhaktim, what is that verse?
Pradyumna: Srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]?
Prabhupada: Huh? That's not it. Klesala, klesala.
Pradyumna: Klesadikataras, klesa?
Prabhupada: Klisyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye tesam asau klesala eva sisyate nanyad yatha sthula-tusavaghatinam.
Hari-sauri: It's from the Bhagavatam?
Prabhupada: Yes, it is mentioned in the Caitanya-caritamrta. Any process you accept, rejecting devotional service, the result will be that there is no profit. You simply labor for nothing, as much as to beat the husk, you'll never get the rice, you will simply be tiresome, that's all. Just like so-called religion. There is no faith in God. There is no need of God, and "religion." This is nonsense. Religion means without God? This is going on. God, you can accept anyone, Ramakrishna Mission. Any rascal...He was a fool, illiterate rascal, Ramakrishna. He became God. No standard, and they are propagating Ramakrishna Mission. As we are preaching Krsna is God, they are preaching Ramakrishna. And who's accepting them? For the last hundred years, they are preaching. So who has become a devotee of Ramakrishna?
Pusta Krsna: It's absurd to even think about becoming a devotee of Ramakrishna.
Prabhupada: You have got Caitanya-caritamrta?
Pradyumna: I think it is Tenth Canto. Sreyah srutim bhaktim? I've been making a list of all the verses that you quote most.
Prabhupada: That's nice.
Pradyumna:
sreyah srutim bhaktim udasya te vibho
klisyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye
tesam asau klesala eva sisyate
nanyad yatha sthula-tusavaghatinam
[SB 10.14.4]
Prabhupada: There is note?
Pradyumna: Bhaktim vina jnanam tu naiva siddhyed ity aha (indistinct) sreyah srutim iti; sreyasam abhyudayapavarga-laksananam srtih saranam, yasyah sarasa iva nirjharanam, tam te tava bhaktim udasya tyaktva sreyasam marga-bhutam iti va; tesam klesalah klesa evavasisyate. Ayam bhavan (indistinct) yatha alpapramanam dhanyam parityajya antah (indistinct) kanahinam sthula-dhanyabhasams tusaneva (indistinct) vaghnanti, tesam na kincit phalam, evam bhaktim tucchi-krtya ye kevala-bodhaya prayatante, tesam apiti.
Prabhupada: Yes. Simply tiresome, that's all. Religion, no God. There are so many religions.
Hari-sauri: Soon as they forget the actual religion then there are so many concoctions.
Prabhupada: "This is our religion." What is religion? "No God." What is religion? Then, those who are godless, they have got religion. Atheism has got religion. Then why bring this religion? What is the meaning of religion? Just see.
Pradyumna: One time we went to a church in Boston to speak. They had only a pulpit for the preacher, and behind, no altar, no crucifix, nothing, just big map of outer space with planets on the wall. Not even any Christian church, but no cross, nothing. Only universe. Universalist Church, it's called. The Universalists.
Prabhupada: That's nice, but give some information of the universe.
Hari-sauri: Says, "Religion: 1. monastic condition, being a monk or a nun, enter into a monastic order; 2. practice of sacred rites; 3. one of the prevalent systems of faith and worship, i.e. Christian, Muhammadan, etc.; 4. human recognition of superhuman controlling power and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience, effect of such recognition on conduct and mental attitude."
Prabhupada: This is religion. Personal conception of God.
Hari-sauri: And then "5. action that one is bound to do."
Prabhupada: Yes. Everything is there. Any one of them you take. That's good idea, but special conception of personal God, huh? What is that?
Hari-sauri: "Human recognition of superhuman controlling power and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience."
Prabhupada: That's all, clear. What are the other items?
Hari-sauri: Then, "the effect of such recognition on conduct and mental attitude." And then "action that one is bound to do."
Prabhupada: One is bound to do. Dharmena hina pasubhih samana. If he does not do, then he's animal. It must be done. There is no question of optional. If you are human being, you must be religious, you must recognize the supreme controller. Otherwise, you are animal. What is the other interpretations? Beginning one?
Hari-sauri: "Monastic condition, being a monk or a nun."
Prabhupada: Just like every religion has got some condition, monastic, is it not?
Hari-sauri: Yes, every religion has a system of priests.
Prabhupada: (Coughs severely for a few minutes) Monastic condition?
Hari-sauri: "Practice of sacred rites."
Prabhupada: So, without reference to God, what is the meaning of sacred rites? Everything is reference that accepting the supreme controller. That is the real meaning. At least, Christian religion accepts God, Muhammadan religion accepts God, or Hindu religion accepts God. So without God, how it can be religion? If there is no understanding of God, the conclusion comes that there is no religion. Fictitious. "We trust in God," but do not know what is God. This is going on. So we have to fight against all this nonsense. Nonsense scientists, nonsense religionists. What do you think? It is not easy-going, sleeping business. We have to fight with so many demons. Otherwise, kava dava adakanam (?), my Guru Maharaja used to say. Beg some rice and bring it and cook it and eat and sleep.
Pradyumna: Kava daka?
Prabhupada: Kava dava adakanam. As all our Godbrothers are doing. They have got a little temple, and a few devotees go and beg rice and cook it and eat and sleep, that's all.
Pusta Krsna: Like being dead almost.
Prabhupada: No fighting spirit. Thakura dekhiya (indistinct). Just make a Deity, show. Our Tirtha Maharaja is doing that. His whole idea was, that "I have now captured the birthplace of Caitanya Mahaprabhu by high-court favor. Now I have got everything. People will come and they'll pay something, and that will be my income for my family." As the caste gosvamis do in Navadvipa and other... A means of livelihood. He has no devotion. He wanted as a means of income. Like the Vrndavana gosvamis, Navadvipa gosvamis do. Little devotion, automatically, there is. They are, after all, worshiping the Deity. But their purpose is different. Just like we have established Radha-Vrndavanacandra not that people will come and pay something. Who will come here, in this foreign country or in this secluded place? So our aim is to make the devotees real devotees. Not for earning money. When we establish a center in a place like this, where is the idea of getting money? (laughs) Who will come here? One, it is a foreign country, nobody knows what is Krsna. And one has to come with so great difficulty, on the mountain. And who is coming to pay for it? After spending so much money, they will come here to pay? Our process is that wherever we stay, we worship Krsna. As far as possible. That we are doing. Not for earning money but spending money. Now Tirtha Maharaja is seeing that without getting Caitanya Mahaprabhu's birthsite, Swami Maharaja, he is attracting lakhs of people. Without the favor of high-court, he is attracting. That is his envy. This year, you were not present?
Pusta Krsna: At Mayapura?
Prabhupada: Oh, you were present?
Pusta Krsna: Oh, yes. There was always...
Hari-sauri: That leaflet that he put out that we saw, he put one leaflet advertising that...
Prabhupada: No, no. Apart from that leaflet... Let him do whatever nonsense... But actually, on the birthday of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, there was the greatest crowd in our temple.
Pusta Krsna: Oh, yes, there was a constant... It was just always packed.
Pradyumna: Every year, before, last year, year before, year before, Caitanya Math, only, not...
Prabhupada: Nobody goes.
Pradyumna: No, only their Math people, and some people they invite from Calcutta. But the regular people all come in to our place.
Prabhupada: Sometimes we went to Madhava Maharaja's temple?
Hari-sauri: In Vrndavana.
Prabhupada: In Vrndavana. Who was there?
Pusta Krsna: Empty. Completely no one.
Hari-sauri: They didn't even have any of their own men living there.
Pusta Krsna: They had to unlock the Deity.
Prabhupada: And that is on the prominent roadside. And our temple is off. Still, so many people are coming. Neither there were inhabitants nor their outsider, visitors. Gate was closed, we had to open and then enter. And he constructed temple at least for the last twenty years.
Pusta Krsna: They have no vision of expanding, except maybe their...
Prabhupada: They make this money-making machine. They do not know the money will automatically come you are sincere. You haven't got to make it a machine. Money Krsna will send. But they have no faith in Krsna. They have faith in their own ability. "Yes, we shall earn money in this way, by showing the Deity." They don't recognize Krsna's everything. They think "By high-court judgement, if we capture this place, then money will come."
Hari-sauri: Practically speaking, they're finished. They're on their last legs.
Prabhupada: Similarly, other svamis and yogis they are finding that this Bhaktivedanta Svami alone is preaching all over the... "We, combined, we could not do anything."
Pradyumna: They are all wondering what your secret is. They always wonder, they cannot understand.
Prabhupada: All the yogis, svamis are there. How it is possible? The Ramakrishna Mission, they are working here for the last hundred years. What they have done? If they had actually preached something, so so many American boys and gentlemen are coming to our temple, we cannot give them place. We have to find out some other, and who is going to the Ramakrishna temple?
Pradyumna: They have empty house.
Prabhupada: If actually Vivekananda preached something, out of inquisitiveness they would have gone there. So "We have heard so much about Ramakrishna and Vivekananda. Let us see what is there." Nobody goes. They do not know even the name. And we are already advertised all over the world, Hare Krsna Movement. At least, everyone knows. Who knows Ramakrishna, Vivekananda?
sreyah srutim bhaktim udasya te vibho
klisyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye
tesam asau klesala eva sisyate
nanyad yatha sthula-tusavaghatinam
[SB 10.14.4]
This is Brahma-stotra?
Pradyumna: Yes, Fourteenth Adhyaya. From brahmovaca, brahma-stuti.
Prabhupada: Just stick to this principle, then you will be successful. Bhakti sreyah srutim. That is the real welfare. Sreyah srutim means "expands auspicity." (apparently talking about a picture) And they want to become one with God. And here is not one, but God is so lower that He carries the shoe of His devotee. Have they got any conception like this? (laughs)
Hari-sauri: They are always talking about...
Prabhupada: There is a verse sruti mahapure sruti mahapure. You know this?
Pradyumna: Sruti apare?
Prabhupada: Sruti mahapure. (indistinct) yasya linde param brahma. "Let others worship the srutis and others smrtis, all these Vedic literature, and others Mahabharata for liberation. But I shall worship Nanda Maharaja, because in his courtyard the Param Brahma is loitering. I shall worship Nanda Maharaja. He's so powerful that he's made the Param Brahman come here and carry his shoes." Sruti mahapure (indistinct) yasya linde param brahma.
Pusta Krsna: That was by a Muslim who became Vaisnava? Once you quoted that, I think that verse, in London.
Prabhupada: That is another similar verse. Yes, you quoted me. And there is another verse by Bilvamangala, in Krsna-karnamrta. The Muslim, he said "I was searching after the Param Brahma, and now I see here He is playing with the gopis." What they will speculate? Everything is there in Srimad-Bhagavatam. Where this picture is given? (Prabhupada is being massaged)
Pradyumna: Which book is it in?
Pusta Krsna: It was on the cover of one Back to Godhead magazine.
Hari-sauri: But it's in one of the books.
Pradyumna: Lord Caitanya did the same thing. He did the same thing, and it was compared Krsna also had done.
Prabhupada: If there is no such acceptance, where is religion?
Hari-sauri: It just becomes a show. Religion nowadays has degenerated so that people more or less accept it just as some moral code now, because there's no knowledge of God.
Prabhupada: So where is that morality?
Hari-sauri: (laughs) There's no morality either.
Prabhupada: While hunting, drinking, meat-eating, is that morality?
Hari-sauri: No. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, New Vrindaban
The Geocentric Design Of The Solar System
This photo is of the Geocentric system of the Solar System where the Planets and Sun orbit the Earth. A similar technologically advanced diorama of this structure is presently being built at Mayapur West Bengal India that will house the Vedic Planetarium opening in 2016.
It is similar because in Sadupta dasa’s Book, Vedic Cosmology, he explains how the Moon is closer to the Earth Planet than the Sun, although on many occasions on morning walks and lectures, Srila Prabhupada has said that the Sun is closer and to arrive at the Moon one must first travel past the Sun.
The other so called hypothesis is the Heliocentric design where the Sun is the center of the Solar system meaning all the Planets orbit the Sun which is the present day scientific explanation that Srila Prabhupada rejected.
As devotee of the Gaudiya teachings and ISKCON we only accept the shastric explanation given to us by Srila Prabhupada who clearly says the Geocentric system is the correct one as the photo attempts to show.
Actually the Heliocentric theory is relatively new, even the Catholic Church officially believes in the Geocentric system as does the teachings of Islam.
Only due to modern science and the beginning of the so called age of ‘Enlightenment’ in the 17th Century did modern man start questioning all major Religious teachings of the Geocentric system however, as devotees we fully accept the authority of the Srimad Bhagavatam given to us by Srila Prabhupada meaning we accept the Geocentric model only.
As from 2016 when the Temple of the Vedic Planetarium is finished, the Geocentric System will become more known to the world and to many devotees who have not studied the 5th Canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam in detail.
This will definitely create more interest in the Geocentric design and the Krsna Conscious Movement and without a doubt it will create great interest where many documentaries around the world on this subject will bring many millions of people to Mayapur.
Of course modern science will challenge the Srimad Bhagavatam while other will come to accept the great wisdom of the Vedas and Srila Prabhupada’s Books that are found today in most languages around the world.
So get ready for 2016 when the wisdom of the Temple of the Vedic Planetarium in Mayapur comes on line for the whole world to see, bringing in a new (or very old) area of cosmology to the world.
The Geocentric model according to Srimad Bhagavatam differs greatly from the Christian and Islamic Geocentric model the painting above is based on. Among other things such as being Merucentric, the Srimad Bhagavatam model would have to show Venus and Mercury orbiting the sun as the sun orbits the earth (when seen from a geocentric point of view).
Sadapta dasa explains that Bhumandala is earth centered. Its innermost island, Jambudvipa, contains Bharata-varsha, which Srila Prabhupada has repeatedly identified as the planet earth.
In contrast, the orbits of the planets are centered on the sun. How, then, can they be compared to earth-centered features of Bhumandala?
The geocentric orbit of a planet is a product of two heliocentric motions, the motion of the earth around the sun and the motion of the planet around the sun. To draw it, we shift to the earth as center, and show planets like Mercury orbiting the sun, which in turn orbits the earth.
If we compare Bhu-mandala with the Earth, the solar system out to Saturn, and the Milky Way galaxy, Bhu-mandala matches the solar system closely, while radically differing in size from Earth and the galaxy.
The structures of Bhu-mandala correspond with the planetary orbits of the solar system If we compare the rings of Bhu-mandala with the orbits of Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, we find several close alignments that give weight to the hypothesis that Bhu-mandala was deliberately designed as a map of the solar system.
The Bhagavatam 5th Canto describes the planets revolving around Mount Meru attached by ropes of wind known as pravaha. The earth is closest to Mount Meru, followed by the Sun, Moon, Mars and so on.
Also the Sun is 14,00,000 times bigger than the Earth and the Moon is twice as large as the Sun. The above model needs to be modified quite a bit before it can be implemented in the Vedic planetarium, since we need to present the Bhagavatam’s version whether or not it conforms to the modern “scientific” version or not.
Merucentric is Geocentric. Bhumandala is the solar system and is earth centered. Bhumandala is far too big to be the earth, but in size it turns out quite a reasonable match for the solar system.
Mount Meru is situated in the center of Bhumandala and shaped like an inverted cone, with a radius ranging from 8,000 yojanas at the bottom to 16,000 yojanas at the top.
Bhumandala’s innermost island, Jambudvipa, contains Bharata-varsha, which Shrila Prabhupada has repeatedly identified as the planet earth so Merucentric is Geocentric
In the Bhagavatam, Bhumandala—the “earth mandala”—is a disk 500 million yojanas in diameter. The yojana is a unit of distance about 8 miles long, and so the diameter of Bhumandala is about 4 billion miles. Bhumandala is marked by circular features designated as islands and oceans.
Bhumandala appears to be a highly artificial portrayal of the earth as an enormous flat disk, with continents and oceans that do not tally with geographical experience. But careful consideration shows that Bhumandala does not really represent the earth at all. To see why, we have to consider the motion of the sun.
In the Bhagavatam the sun is said to travel on a chariot. The wheel of this chariot is made of parts of the year, such as months and seasons. So it might be argued that the chariot is meant to be taken metaphorically, rather than literally. But here we are concerned more with the chariot’s dimensions than with its composition. The chariot has an axle that rests at one end on Mount Meru, in the center of Jambudvipa
The sun rides on a platform joined to the axle at an elevation of 100,000 thousand yojanas from the surface of Bhumandala. Since the axle extends from Mount Meru to Mount Manasottara, its length must be 15,750 thousand yojanas, or 157.5 times as long as the height of the sun above Bhumandala.
Since the sun’s platform is somewhere on the axle between Meru (in the center) and the wheel (running on the circular track of Manasottara), it follows that to an observer at the center the sun always seems very close to the surface of Bhumandala.
Your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa
This photo is of the Geocentric system of the Solar System where the Planets and Sun orbit the Earth. A similar technologically advanced diorama of this structure is presently being built at Mayapur West Bengal India that will house the Vedic Planetarium opening in 2016.
It is similar because in Sadupta dasa’s Book, Vedic Cosmology, he explains how the Moon is closer to the Earth Planet than the Sun, although on many occasions on morning walks and lectures, Srila Prabhupada has said that the Sun is closer and to arrive at the Moon one must first travel past the Sun.
The other so called hypothesis is the Heliocentric design where the Sun is the center of the Solar system meaning all the Planets orbit the Sun which is the present day scientific explanation that Srila Prabhupada rejected.
As devotee of the Gaudiya teachings and ISKCON we only accept the shastric explanation given to us by Srila Prabhupada who clearly says the Geocentric system is the correct one as the photo attempts to show.
Actually the Heliocentric theory is relatively new, even the Catholic Church officially believes in the Geocentric system as does the teachings of Islam.
Only due to modern science and the beginning of the so called age of ‘Enlightenment’ in the 17th Century did modern man start questioning all major Religious teachings of the Geocentric system however, as devotees we fully accept the authority of the Srimad Bhagavatam given to us by Srila Prabhupada meaning we accept the Geocentric model only.
As from 2016 when the Temple of the Vedic Planetarium is finished, the Geocentric System will become more known to the world and to many devotees who have not studied the 5th Canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam in detail.
This will definitely create more interest in the Geocentric design and the Krsna Conscious Movement and without a doubt it will create great interest where many documentaries around the world on this subject will bring many millions of people to Mayapur.
Of course modern science will challenge the Srimad Bhagavatam while other will come to accept the great wisdom of the Vedas and Srila Prabhupada’s Books that are found today in most languages around the world.
So get ready for 2016 when the wisdom of the Temple of the Vedic Planetarium in Mayapur comes on line for the whole world to see, bringing in a new (or very old) area of cosmology to the world.
The Geocentric model according to Srimad Bhagavatam differs greatly from the Christian and Islamic Geocentric model the painting above is based on. Among other things such as being Merucentric, the Srimad Bhagavatam model would have to show Venus and Mercury orbiting the sun as the sun orbits the earth (when seen from a geocentric point of view).
Sadapta dasa explains that Bhumandala is earth centered. Its innermost island, Jambudvipa, contains Bharata-varsha, which Srila Prabhupada has repeatedly identified as the planet earth.
In contrast, the orbits of the planets are centered on the sun. How, then, can they be compared to earth-centered features of Bhumandala?
The geocentric orbit of a planet is a product of two heliocentric motions, the motion of the earth around the sun and the motion of the planet around the sun. To draw it, we shift to the earth as center, and show planets like Mercury orbiting the sun, which in turn orbits the earth.
If we compare Bhu-mandala with the Earth, the solar system out to Saturn, and the Milky Way galaxy, Bhu-mandala matches the solar system closely, while radically differing in size from Earth and the galaxy.
The structures of Bhu-mandala correspond with the planetary orbits of the solar system If we compare the rings of Bhu-mandala with the orbits of Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, we find several close alignments that give weight to the hypothesis that Bhu-mandala was deliberately designed as a map of the solar system.
The Bhagavatam 5th Canto describes the planets revolving around Mount Meru attached by ropes of wind known as pravaha. The earth is closest to Mount Meru, followed by the Sun, Moon, Mars and so on.
Also the Sun is 14,00,000 times bigger than the Earth and the Moon is twice as large as the Sun. The above model needs to be modified quite a bit before it can be implemented in the Vedic planetarium, since we need to present the Bhagavatam’s version whether or not it conforms to the modern “scientific” version or not.
Merucentric is Geocentric. Bhumandala is the solar system and is earth centered. Bhumandala is far too big to be the earth, but in size it turns out quite a reasonable match for the solar system.
Mount Meru is situated in the center of Bhumandala and shaped like an inverted cone, with a radius ranging from 8,000 yojanas at the bottom to 16,000 yojanas at the top.
Bhumandala’s innermost island, Jambudvipa, contains Bharata-varsha, which Shrila Prabhupada has repeatedly identified as the planet earth so Merucentric is Geocentric
In the Bhagavatam, Bhumandala—the “earth mandala”—is a disk 500 million yojanas in diameter. The yojana is a unit of distance about 8 miles long, and so the diameter of Bhumandala is about 4 billion miles. Bhumandala is marked by circular features designated as islands and oceans.
Bhumandala appears to be a highly artificial portrayal of the earth as an enormous flat disk, with continents and oceans that do not tally with geographical experience. But careful consideration shows that Bhumandala does not really represent the earth at all. To see why, we have to consider the motion of the sun.
In the Bhagavatam the sun is said to travel on a chariot. The wheel of this chariot is made of parts of the year, such as months and seasons. So it might be argued that the chariot is meant to be taken metaphorically, rather than literally. But here we are concerned more with the chariot’s dimensions than with its composition. The chariot has an axle that rests at one end on Mount Meru, in the center of Jambudvipa
The sun rides on a platform joined to the axle at an elevation of 100,000 thousand yojanas from the surface of Bhumandala. Since the axle extends from Mount Meru to Mount Manasottara, its length must be 15,750 thousand yojanas, or 157.5 times as long as the height of the sun above Bhumandala.
Since the sun’s platform is somewhere on the axle between Meru (in the center) and the wheel (running on the circular track of Manasottara), it follows that to an observer at the center the sun always seems very close to the surface of Bhumandala.
Your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa
Vedic Cosmology Decoding the 5th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, Part 6
Compiled by Mayesa dasa, edited by Gauragopala dasa.
Mars, Jupiter and Saturn
Their distances per Srimad Bhagavatam 5th Canto. I shall be using the symbol / for division and the symbol x for multiplication.
In our previous calculations we have used the 0 degree celestial or planetary orbit around Earth's equator for our equations. Now we must use Venus's lowest orbit to derive the distance to Mars.
Venus 's orbit around the equator must be divided by cos (27.8). The math is 729,886,420.9 / cos (27.8) = 825,121,092.8. Now we work the formula as we already have been. The math is as follows:
825,121,092.8 / 360 / (31,500,000 + 800,000 + 1,600,000 + 1,600,000 + 1,600,000 + 160,000) x 2,031,946,146 =120,341,776.1 / 27.2 x 360 = 1,592,758,801. Now divide by 2 = 796379400.6 (The number 27.2 is the declination of the planet).
To get Jupiter we must first divide Mars circumference by cos (27.2) to get its extreme of orbit = 895,395,480.1
The math to find Jupiter is as follows: 895,395,480.1 / 360 / (31,500,000 + 800,000 + 1,600,000 + =1,600,000 + 1,600,000 + 1,600,000 + 1,600,000) x (2,031,946,146 / 2) / 23.5 x 360 = 960,559,313.1. (The number 23.5 is the declination of the planet.)
To get Saturn we use the number 960,559,313.1 without alteration. The math is as follows: 960,559,313.1 / 360 / (31,500,000 + 800,000 + 1,600,000 + 1,600,000 + 16,000,000 + 16,000,000 + 1,600,000 = 1,600,000) x (2,031,946,146 / 2) / 22.8 x 360 = 1,021,042,287. (The number 22.8 is the declination of the planet.)
[Note to those doing this math, I am going to consolidate the numbers added to the Sun's chariot for easier calculation in the following equation.]
Now to find the 7 sages (Big Dipper, Ursae Majoris) we must first multiply 1,021,042,287 by 2 = 2,042,084,574. Now we proceed to find the 7 sages. The math looks like this: 2,042,084,574 / 360 / (31,500,000 + 2,400,000 + (5 x 1,600,000) + 8,800,000) x 2,031,946,146 / 59.04766825 = 3,850,106.169 x 360 = 1,386,038,221.
In this way, through a series of articles, we have worked backwards from Srimad Bhagavatam 5th Canto, Chapter 24, text 6 and from Chapter 21 forward to meet at the 7 sages, and we find that the numbers work. We conclude that this is a mathematical system and that it describes the distance to planetary bodies.
My spiritual master Srila Prabhupada wanted a Vedic planetarium built on this model and if I have contributed to that dream in any way, I am grateful.
Compiled by Mayesa dasa, edited by Gauragopala dasa.
Mars, Jupiter and Saturn
Their distances per Srimad Bhagavatam 5th Canto. I shall be using the symbol / for division and the symbol x for multiplication.
In our previous calculations we have used the 0 degree celestial or planetary orbit around Earth's equator for our equations. Now we must use Venus's lowest orbit to derive the distance to Mars.
Venus 's orbit around the equator must be divided by cos (27.8). The math is 729,886,420.9 / cos (27.8) = 825,121,092.8. Now we work the formula as we already have been. The math is as follows:
825,121,092.8 / 360 / (31,500,000 + 800,000 + 1,600,000 + 1,600,000 + 1,600,000 + 160,000) x 2,031,946,146 =120,341,776.1 / 27.2 x 360 = 1,592,758,801. Now divide by 2 = 796379400.6 (The number 27.2 is the declination of the planet).
To get Jupiter we must first divide Mars circumference by cos (27.2) to get its extreme of orbit = 895,395,480.1
The math to find Jupiter is as follows: 895,395,480.1 / 360 / (31,500,000 + 800,000 + 1,600,000 + =1,600,000 + 1,600,000 + 1,600,000 + 1,600,000) x (2,031,946,146 / 2) / 23.5 x 360 = 960,559,313.1. (The number 23.5 is the declination of the planet.)
To get Saturn we use the number 960,559,313.1 without alteration. The math is as follows: 960,559,313.1 / 360 / (31,500,000 + 800,000 + 1,600,000 + 1,600,000 + 16,000,000 + 16,000,000 + 1,600,000 = 1,600,000) x (2,031,946,146 / 2) / 22.8 x 360 = 1,021,042,287. (The number 22.8 is the declination of the planet.)
[Note to those doing this math, I am going to consolidate the numbers added to the Sun's chariot for easier calculation in the following equation.]
Now to find the 7 sages (Big Dipper, Ursae Majoris) we must first multiply 1,021,042,287 by 2 = 2,042,084,574. Now we proceed to find the 7 sages. The math looks like this: 2,042,084,574 / 360 / (31,500,000 + 2,400,000 + (5 x 1,600,000) + 8,800,000) x 2,031,946,146 / 59.04766825 = 3,850,106.169 x 360 = 1,386,038,221.
In this way, through a series of articles, we have worked backwards from Srimad Bhagavatam 5th Canto, Chapter 24, text 6 and from Chapter 21 forward to meet at the 7 sages, and we find that the numbers work. We conclude that this is a mathematical system and that it describes the distance to planetary bodies.
My spiritual master Srila Prabhupada wanted a Vedic planetarium built on this model and if I have contributed to that dream in any way, I am grateful.
Vedic Cosmology Decoding the 5th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, Part Five
Compiled by Mayesa dasa, edited by Gauragopala dasa.
The Spiritual and Material Worlds
We are in the spiritual world always but we are now in a portion that is covered over by matter. The mechanism of the material universe portion of the spiritual sky, measuring one quarter of Krishna's creation (spiritual sky), is just like an organized machine with moving parts.
Those moving parts are all the material planetary systems; the planets are organized just like a clock is designed and works because of the clock maker. Modern scientists however, cannot find the winder and maintainer of that clock and speculate wrongly of how the universe works.
There is therefore a central line east and west, north and south because the universe has dimensions. (Maha Visnu is breathing out each universe). Meru in this universe (one of billions) is located on that central line and the planets, according to Vedic sastra, turn around that and a form of wind is propelling them.
Mount Meru is in each material universe. It is none other than the stable of a gigantic lotus flower, which grows from the navel of Lord Vishnu. On the top is situated Satyaloka, where Lord Brahma resides. This lotus flower is also Virat Rupa of the Lord. In His upper portions is situated the heavenly planet, in His middle portions is situated the earthly planets and in the lower portions is situated the lower - hellish planets.
The hells are located underneath Bhuloka. Then below the hells are the subterranean planets. Or the subterranean planets come first and then the hells. We shall have to work out the math. It is there in Srimad Bhagavatam 5th Canto.
Bhuloka is always pictured as flat but it is described as roundish in Surya Siddhanta. So it is like an upside-down bowl and the hells are underneath.
The single Sun moves around this Mount Meru and all other planets move around the Sun and Mount Meru.
Understanding Bhurloka
Bhurloka, or Bhu-mandala is possibly the Solar System consisting of seven spheres (dvipas) - Jambudvipa, Plaksadvipa, Salmalidvipa, Kusadvipa, Krauncadvipa, Sakadvipa, Puskaradvipa - which are inhabited by various human beings. Bhumandala is earth centered. Its innermost island, Jambudvipa, contains Bharata-varsha, which Srila Prabhupada has repeatedly identified as the planet Earth.
Srimad Bhagavatam 5.16.5 further explains:
"The planetary system known as Bhu-mandala resembles a lotus flower, and its seven islands resemble the whorl of that flower. The length and breadth of the island known as Jambudvipa, which is situated in the middle of the whorl, are one million yojanas [eight million miles]. Jambudvipa is round like the leaf of a lotus flower."
The planet Earth is situated within Jambudvipa and is known as karma-bhumi (Visnu Purana 2.3.2), which is one of the central planets within the 14 planetary systems of this universe. On this earthly planet new karma is created, therefore planet earth is a karmic crossroad where one's pious and impious activity determines where one takes their next birth within the 14 planetary systems. On this planet I will decide about my future situation, heavenly or hellish, by acting in a particular way, as the 5th Canto 5.13.21 of Srimad Bhagavatam explains:
"King Rahugana said: This birth as a human being is the best of all. Even birth among the demigods in the heavenly planets is not as glorious as birth as a human being on this earth. What is the use of the exalted position of a demigod? In the heavenly planets, due to profuse material comforts, there is no possibility of associating with devotees."
The modern scientists take no help from sastra and speculate that every force is material. But they have not been able to create a "living body" or bring a dead body to life. They simply speculate. And unintelligent people are impressed with their mindless (devoid of advanced spiritual values) speculation.
Sadaputa presents the Bhuloka or Jambudvipa and Meru as well as other islands and seas as flat. According to Surya Siddhanta it is round like and upside-down bowl.
With Meru on the top it is in the center. One reason mathematically it is so, is that the planets are having degrees north and south and they should not "crash into" Bhuloka. If the planets crash into Bhuloka then we take Bhuloka as a "subtle" land or as "symbolic" of other things. Bhu is this land, bhavah is outer space, sva is upper spaces as in the Gayatri mantra, where we chant, om bhur bhuvah svah tat savitur varenyam. Above the Bhuloka planetary system is Bhuvarloka, and above that is Svargaloka, the heavenly planetary system
All these planetary systems are controlled by Savita, the Sun-god. By chanting the Gayatrī mantra just after rising early in the morning, one worships the Sun-god. (Srimad Bhagavatam 5.1.31)
Further in the 5th Canto, Chapter 21, text 7 it is said that there is "sunrise, sunset, midday and midnight" on the four corners of Bhu loka. This can only be if it is round. If it were flat the Sun would be further away but always seen in the sky.
It is a contentious point that Srila Prabhupada might not have revealed all about this matter to us he knew, or that he might have counted upon us to research it in depth and find out more than he reveals.
On many occasions Srila Prabhupada asked his disciples to find Vedic scholars who are familiar with the Srimad Bhagavatam's version of the universe however, Srila Prabhupada found out that many so-called Vedic scholars are either useless (they had no idea) or that such rare bonafide scholars were hard to find. This is revealed in a conversation Srila Prabhupada had with Vedic Astronomer Agnihotram Ramanuja Tattvacarya on April 30, 1977, Bombay. http://prabhupadavani.org/BA_scripts/201-300/770430R2-BOMBAY.html
As an example of research, I have noticed that the Earth is always thought to be the planet that Lord Varaha lifts from the ocean at the end of partial pralaya. But in many Puranas, Varaha lifts the entire Bhuloka from the waters. Even Meru has been dislodged and He restores it.
Krauncha dvipa is one of the seven islands surrounding Meru. There is said in the Puranas that Krauncha dvipa has the mark of one of Lord Varaha's tusks in it. If Srila Prabhupada did not go into this in great detail, this may be due to our beginning nature as devotees, or that he wanted us to do the research to understand this further.
Sadaputa dasa has taken the approach that the dimensions are not perceivable by the senses, which in some cases may be true, like the servants of Yamaraj are not seen when they come to collect an embodied soul at the death of their human biological body. But if we are calculating the distance to the Sun from Bhagavatam, the Sun is a perceivable object. Then suddenly Meru is not perceivable?
So we have to distinguish what we mean by unperceivable. Do we mean because it is out of view? India was out of my view before I visited there. But I was able to perceive it in other ways. Or is something imperceptible because it is composed of subtle matter?
In a morning walk Srila Prabhupada mentioned a mountain of Gold. He was referring to Meru. And he said, "If they learn of it they shall be mad to go there." Go where? If it is subtle matter the people could never go there.
The Ganges water is falling on Lord Siva's head, on a mountain known as Kailasa, 80,000 miles tall or so. If the Ganges is real is not the mountain and Lord Siva's form also real?
Today I listened to a lecture on the 9th Chapter of Bhagavad-gita As It Is given in 1976 in Melbourne Australia. In the question and answer portion Srila Prabhupada clearly explained that the Moon is higher than the Sun in that it travels higher than the Sun.
Often this is misunderstood. People hear this and think his meaning is that the Moon is "further away" than the Sun. This is clearly not his meaning. If something amazing could exist in this multi-layered approach it could certainly exist in a single universe theory also. Sometimes a magician like Dynamo is very wonderful and we cannot see how he has defied logic. But it is a simple trick.
Because you do not "see" Meru does not mean it is not there. It defies our so-called logic, because we are like animals that within this body there is something eternal. It defies our foolish minds that Brahma has got a lifespan from the beginning of the universe to the end.
So many things are beyond our capabilities. We should not try to bring them down to our puny way of understanding. There is one insect that lives thru the night. He hovers around the light. In the morning you can sweep those dead insects into a pile. Those insects cannot imagine your lifespan, they would think it "imagination". If they were clever they would say, "That must be in an alternate universe, certainly not in 'mine."
The modern scientists or the layman look at a photograph of the Sun from their telescopes and space probes and explain that the entire Sun is nothing but burning gases. They cannot reproduce this Sun even on the tiniest scale in their laboratory.
They have never experienced anything like the Sun on this earth that continues to burn. They have created the atomic bomb but it burns out. It does not continue to burn like the Sun. The scientists cannot imagine that it is possible because they cannot do it.
They speculate that the Sun is a "chain reaction of gases exploding from within then moving to the Sun's surface". All speculation. They cannot imagine that they are seeing the clouds around the Sun and that underneath these clouds there is a race of people living there.
Their limited experience is that heat makes water evaporate and turn into clouds however, they do not imagine that that water travels in atomic form to the Sun itself, as the Matsya Purana explains, and is then expelled in the same way.
Modern scientists also cannot extract water from certain gases. They also do not think water is there in outer space, but because they are unable to presently see its existence, that does not mean it cannot be there.
On this Earth at the north and south poles under the water, fish are living and also in the human body there are fierce temperatures in the stomach acid where microbes and bacteria are living. The idea of people living on the Sun is not within the modern scientist's ability to fathom at present.
But remember, scientists do not believe there is a soul in the body which cannot be burned etc. (as described in second chapter of Bhagavad-gita). They cannot imagine varieties of bodies constructed to withstand extreme temperatures.
Modern science works exclusively on the principle that "all is matter" and life must only be here or on one similar planet that can support the kind of life we have here.
Maha Visnu is lying in the Causal Ocean and glances over material nature, introducing the myriad living entities into this universe in the same way Vivasvan, an incarnation of the Lord, is drawing the material molecules or atoms of water to the Sun globe.
Matsya Purana says that the Sun is drawing water from Bhuloka up to Dhruvaloka. If the Sun is "drawing" water, isn't it possible for him to "draw it" all the way to Himself?
Compiled by Mayesa dasa, edited by Gauragopala dasa.
The Spiritual and Material Worlds
We are in the spiritual world always but we are now in a portion that is covered over by matter. The mechanism of the material universe portion of the spiritual sky, measuring one quarter of Krishna's creation (spiritual sky), is just like an organized machine with moving parts.
Those moving parts are all the material planetary systems; the planets are organized just like a clock is designed and works because of the clock maker. Modern scientists however, cannot find the winder and maintainer of that clock and speculate wrongly of how the universe works.
There is therefore a central line east and west, north and south because the universe has dimensions. (Maha Visnu is breathing out each universe). Meru in this universe (one of billions) is located on that central line and the planets, according to Vedic sastra, turn around that and a form of wind is propelling them.
Mount Meru is in each material universe. It is none other than the stable of a gigantic lotus flower, which grows from the navel of Lord Vishnu. On the top is situated Satyaloka, where Lord Brahma resides. This lotus flower is also Virat Rupa of the Lord. In His upper portions is situated the heavenly planet, in His middle portions is situated the earthly planets and in the lower portions is situated the lower - hellish planets.
The hells are located underneath Bhuloka. Then below the hells are the subterranean planets. Or the subterranean planets come first and then the hells. We shall have to work out the math. It is there in Srimad Bhagavatam 5th Canto.
Bhuloka is always pictured as flat but it is described as roundish in Surya Siddhanta. So it is like an upside-down bowl and the hells are underneath.
The single Sun moves around this Mount Meru and all other planets move around the Sun and Mount Meru.
Understanding Bhurloka
Bhurloka, or Bhu-mandala is possibly the Solar System consisting of seven spheres (dvipas) - Jambudvipa, Plaksadvipa, Salmalidvipa, Kusadvipa, Krauncadvipa, Sakadvipa, Puskaradvipa - which are inhabited by various human beings. Bhumandala is earth centered. Its innermost island, Jambudvipa, contains Bharata-varsha, which Srila Prabhupada has repeatedly identified as the planet Earth.
Srimad Bhagavatam 5.16.5 further explains:
"The planetary system known as Bhu-mandala resembles a lotus flower, and its seven islands resemble the whorl of that flower. The length and breadth of the island known as Jambudvipa, which is situated in the middle of the whorl, are one million yojanas [eight million miles]. Jambudvipa is round like the leaf of a lotus flower."
The planet Earth is situated within Jambudvipa and is known as karma-bhumi (Visnu Purana 2.3.2), which is one of the central planets within the 14 planetary systems of this universe. On this earthly planet new karma is created, therefore planet earth is a karmic crossroad where one's pious and impious activity determines where one takes their next birth within the 14 planetary systems. On this planet I will decide about my future situation, heavenly or hellish, by acting in a particular way, as the 5th Canto 5.13.21 of Srimad Bhagavatam explains:
"King Rahugana said: This birth as a human being is the best of all. Even birth among the demigods in the heavenly planets is not as glorious as birth as a human being on this earth. What is the use of the exalted position of a demigod? In the heavenly planets, due to profuse material comforts, there is no possibility of associating with devotees."
The modern scientists take no help from sastra and speculate that every force is material. But they have not been able to create a "living body" or bring a dead body to life. They simply speculate. And unintelligent people are impressed with their mindless (devoid of advanced spiritual values) speculation.
Sadaputa presents the Bhuloka or Jambudvipa and Meru as well as other islands and seas as flat. According to Surya Siddhanta it is round like and upside-down bowl.
With Meru on the top it is in the center. One reason mathematically it is so, is that the planets are having degrees north and south and they should not "crash into" Bhuloka. If the planets crash into Bhuloka then we take Bhuloka as a "subtle" land or as "symbolic" of other things. Bhu is this land, bhavah is outer space, sva is upper spaces as in the Gayatri mantra, where we chant, om bhur bhuvah svah tat savitur varenyam. Above the Bhuloka planetary system is Bhuvarloka, and above that is Svargaloka, the heavenly planetary system
All these planetary systems are controlled by Savita, the Sun-god. By chanting the Gayatrī mantra just after rising early in the morning, one worships the Sun-god. (Srimad Bhagavatam 5.1.31)
Further in the 5th Canto, Chapter 21, text 7 it is said that there is "sunrise, sunset, midday and midnight" on the four corners of Bhu loka. This can only be if it is round. If it were flat the Sun would be further away but always seen in the sky.
It is a contentious point that Srila Prabhupada might not have revealed all about this matter to us he knew, or that he might have counted upon us to research it in depth and find out more than he reveals.
On many occasions Srila Prabhupada asked his disciples to find Vedic scholars who are familiar with the Srimad Bhagavatam's version of the universe however, Srila Prabhupada found out that many so-called Vedic scholars are either useless (they had no idea) or that such rare bonafide scholars were hard to find. This is revealed in a conversation Srila Prabhupada had with Vedic Astronomer Agnihotram Ramanuja Tattvacarya on April 30, 1977, Bombay. http://prabhupadavani.org/BA_scripts/201-300/770430R2-BOMBAY.html
As an example of research, I have noticed that the Earth is always thought to be the planet that Lord Varaha lifts from the ocean at the end of partial pralaya. But in many Puranas, Varaha lifts the entire Bhuloka from the waters. Even Meru has been dislodged and He restores it.
Krauncha dvipa is one of the seven islands surrounding Meru. There is said in the Puranas that Krauncha dvipa has the mark of one of Lord Varaha's tusks in it. If Srila Prabhupada did not go into this in great detail, this may be due to our beginning nature as devotees, or that he wanted us to do the research to understand this further.
Sadaputa dasa has taken the approach that the dimensions are not perceivable by the senses, which in some cases may be true, like the servants of Yamaraj are not seen when they come to collect an embodied soul at the death of their human biological body. But if we are calculating the distance to the Sun from Bhagavatam, the Sun is a perceivable object. Then suddenly Meru is not perceivable?
So we have to distinguish what we mean by unperceivable. Do we mean because it is out of view? India was out of my view before I visited there. But I was able to perceive it in other ways. Or is something imperceptible because it is composed of subtle matter?
In a morning walk Srila Prabhupada mentioned a mountain of Gold. He was referring to Meru. And he said, "If they learn of it they shall be mad to go there." Go where? If it is subtle matter the people could never go there.
The Ganges water is falling on Lord Siva's head, on a mountain known as Kailasa, 80,000 miles tall or so. If the Ganges is real is not the mountain and Lord Siva's form also real?
Today I listened to a lecture on the 9th Chapter of Bhagavad-gita As It Is given in 1976 in Melbourne Australia. In the question and answer portion Srila Prabhupada clearly explained that the Moon is higher than the Sun in that it travels higher than the Sun.
Often this is misunderstood. People hear this and think his meaning is that the Moon is "further away" than the Sun. This is clearly not his meaning. If something amazing could exist in this multi-layered approach it could certainly exist in a single universe theory also. Sometimes a magician like Dynamo is very wonderful and we cannot see how he has defied logic. But it is a simple trick.
Because you do not "see" Meru does not mean it is not there. It defies our so-called logic, because we are like animals that within this body there is something eternal. It defies our foolish minds that Brahma has got a lifespan from the beginning of the universe to the end.
So many things are beyond our capabilities. We should not try to bring them down to our puny way of understanding. There is one insect that lives thru the night. He hovers around the light. In the morning you can sweep those dead insects into a pile. Those insects cannot imagine your lifespan, they would think it "imagination". If they were clever they would say, "That must be in an alternate universe, certainly not in 'mine."
The modern scientists or the layman look at a photograph of the Sun from their telescopes and space probes and explain that the entire Sun is nothing but burning gases. They cannot reproduce this Sun even on the tiniest scale in their laboratory.
They have never experienced anything like the Sun on this earth that continues to burn. They have created the atomic bomb but it burns out. It does not continue to burn like the Sun. The scientists cannot imagine that it is possible because they cannot do it.
They speculate that the Sun is a "chain reaction of gases exploding from within then moving to the Sun's surface". All speculation. They cannot imagine that they are seeing the clouds around the Sun and that underneath these clouds there is a race of people living there.
Their limited experience is that heat makes water evaporate and turn into clouds however, they do not imagine that that water travels in atomic form to the Sun itself, as the Matsya Purana explains, and is then expelled in the same way.
Modern scientists also cannot extract water from certain gases. They also do not think water is there in outer space, but because they are unable to presently see its existence, that does not mean it cannot be there.
On this Earth at the north and south poles under the water, fish are living and also in the human body there are fierce temperatures in the stomach acid where microbes and bacteria are living. The idea of people living on the Sun is not within the modern scientist's ability to fathom at present.
But remember, scientists do not believe there is a soul in the body which cannot be burned etc. (as described in second chapter of Bhagavad-gita). They cannot imagine varieties of bodies constructed to withstand extreme temperatures.
Modern science works exclusively on the principle that "all is matter" and life must only be here or on one similar planet that can support the kind of life we have here.
Maha Visnu is lying in the Causal Ocean and glances over material nature, introducing the myriad living entities into this universe in the same way Vivasvan, an incarnation of the Lord, is drawing the material molecules or atoms of water to the Sun globe.
Matsya Purana says that the Sun is drawing water from Bhuloka up to Dhruvaloka. If the Sun is "drawing" water, isn't it possible for him to "draw it" all the way to Himself?
Vedic Cosmology Decoding the 5th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, Part Four
Compiled by Mayesa dasa, edited by Gauragopala dasa.
Part One - The Chariot of the Sun is 28,800,000 miles long
You can begin the calculation in the following way. Fifth Canto Srimad Bhagavatam explains the "chariot of the sun" is 28,800,000 miles long. By several other verses, which give different figures, we can understand that the "chariot of the sun" has to be multiplied by 30.
This figure 30 is the number of muhurtas. (There are 30 muhurtas in a 24-hour period). 30 x 28,800,000 is 864,000,000, now this is the Sun at 23.5 degrees south. Similarly a figure is there in Bhagavatam 756,000,000, that is the Sun at 0 degrees celestial. Then the Sun goes to the north to 648,000,000.
All this means is that you can demonstrate this to yourself on a ball. Take only one-half of the ball and wrap something around it so that it gradually moves away from the center towards the top so that at every moment the Sun is moving up and closer to the Earth. This means that the Sun is further away when it goes to the south 23.5 degrees and closer as he moves northward.
This is also confirmed in Matsya Purana, that the Sun is gathering water from the entire universe up to Dhruvaloka. Therefore the Sun changes sizes as he moves up and down. In the spring and summer he is gathering water, then he releases the water. We do not notice any change in size because he changes distance.
The modern scientist speculates that the Sun is only a ball of gases, however, the Srimad Bhagavatam explains that a civilization lives there. What we see with telescopes and space probes is only a limited view of all the cosmos.
The fact is, our gross material senses and their material technological extensions that magnify the material universe around us are not seeing the universe in its full potential. That includes other higher and lower dimensional realities such as the Yamadutas when they come to detain an embodied soul encased in a subtle material body on the death of their gross biological body.
Modern material science therefore has not the eyes to see the Demigods' realities, that include the Sun Planet and his chariot as explained in the 5th Canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam, nor can they see the clouds surrounding the Sun composed of water that the Sun has drawn there, as explained in the Matsya Puranas.
Part Two, Step One - Drawing the 'Chariot of the sun' diagram based on the descriptions found in 5th Canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam
How to draw a diagram of the Sun from the side explained in this way:
First take a square. (It will be helpful if you make it three or four inches on each side because we will be writing numbers under or on top of those lines later on) Then inside the square draw a circle. Where the circle touches the top and sides, draw lines. That divides the circle into four quadrants. It looks something like a gun site. (A square with a circle inside with a cross inside that.)
For this circle we will borrow the image of a clock to help us label its "points". I have already written how to draw it but let us go over it again. (I will also draw this out as I describe it where I am sitting typing this, so I do not make an error.) We shall label points where lines intersect as A, B, C, etc., then we can give the numbers of miles for these lines.
Where the two lines intersect in the middle of our circle will be point A. Where the horizontal middle line intersects the circle on the right will be B. (This is where the circle touches the square on the right.) At two 'o'clock we will make a point C.
Between two o'clock and three o'clock (on the clock face - the circle, exactly midway between C and B) make point D.
Draw a horizontal line from C to center vertical line. That point is E. Draw a horizontal line from point D to center vertical line. That is point F. We now have all our points. They should be on three parallel lines in the upper right quadrant of our circle.
We need two more lines.
Draw a line from point C to point F.
Draw a line from point F to point B.
We now have our points and lines. This is how to draw the diagram of the Sun from Srimad Bhagavatam. (It should look like two flags or pennants, one upside down and one right side up, the lower one larger and the upper one smaller.)
In the second step we will now insert numbers that are miles of distance.
Step Two - Constructing diagram of Chariot of the Sun
Now we shall write on top of or under our lines the numbers of the distances between all the points above.
Line AB is 137,509,870.8
Line BD is 56,400,000 (Although this line is circular it is called a line)
Line CD is 56,400,000 (Although this line is circular it is called a line)
Line FB is 149,946,415.4
Line FD is 120,321,137
Line AF is 59,790,993.67
Line FC is 112,459,811.5
Line EC is 103,132,403.1
Line EF is 44,843,245.13
NOTE:
The chariot of the sun in 5th Canto Bhagavatam is said to be 28,800,000. The meaning is that this is the Sun's greatest distance of movement in a muhurta. (There are 30 muhurtas in a 24-hour period.) He travels different distances every day. In fact, he loses 39,425 miles every muhurta, so that we can know the distance the next day. 864,000,000 minus (39,425 times 30) which is 862,817,250.
This will become obvious after you understand the math of the Sun's chariot diagram.
Step Three - Circumference of the Sun
If the circumference of the Sun is 28,800,000 times 30 = 864,000,000 we divided by 2 and by 3.141592654=137,509,870.8. That is line AB (The formula is circumference divided by 2 and by PI - Pi is 3.141592654. Pi is a number that has no end because there is always (theoretically) a measurement smaller on a circle). 137,509,870.8 divide by cos (23.5) is 149,946,415.3, that is line FB.
The formula we used is the formula for finding the hypotenuse of a right triangle if we know the bottom side. (Mathematicians have several different names for the bottom of a right triangle. I like to refer to it as the "floor" or "bottom". Hypotenuse I call the "roof" because it slants. Or I just call it hypotenuse. The smallest side I call the "wall." The hypotenuse squared minus the floor squared equals the wall. That gives us line AF. Line FD is 756,000,000 divide by 2 and divide by PI (We get the figure 756,000,000 from Vayu and Linga Puranas)
These math formulas can be used to get line EC and EF. In order to get the arc or circular lines on our diagram we divide 864,000,000 by 360.
(There are 360 degrees in a circle) Then we multiply that number by the degrees we wish to know. 864,000,000 divided by 360 times 23.5 = 56,400,000.
NOTE:
If we came from the outside of the universe at its top we would look down and see the Sun circling Meru (which would be the unmoving center of a circle) in a clockwise fashion.
We would see Meru in the center, then Earth out to its side (maybe stationary), then the moon circling Meru and the Earth in a clockwise fashion, then the Sun circling Meru and the moon and the Earth in a clockwise fashion etc.
That is not the diagram of the Sun.
The diagram of the Sun is what you would see if you came from outside of this universe from the side of the universe. The diagram is like a snapshot of the Sun's movement. But it is on a piece of paper or on a screen, which is flat (one dimensional) and does not show that the Sun is moving in three dimensions.
The Sun starts at point B and moves towards the viewer (leaving the page) and then to the left side of our square and then backs behind it; in this way it has a circular movement (three-dimensional).
This is described in the Bhagavatam as just like an axle that is fixed to the top of Meru. The Sun's circle is getting smaller everyday and he is moving northward at the same time. He continues like this until he reaches his highest height and begins to descend in the same matter. As he descends he begins to add 30 times 39,425 miles every 24 hours.
For those keeping track of this site, I have found a small mathematical error in my computations. It does not however appear to affect the entire formula. The method I have employed for finding a circumference is mentioned below. So here is the proper method for finding a circumference so that we can get perfect results. It affects four of the planets so now this revised formula will prove more perfect.
Formerly I have written that to get the highest circumference of a planet from its middle you multiply by the cos of the declination, however, this is the proper way to change circumference and make this mathematics final and clearer:
"If I want to know the Sun's 864,000,000 circumference at 23.5 degrees south I use this formula: 864,000,000 / 360 = 2,400,000 x (360- (23.5 X 1.913553055) = 756,000,000. The number 1.913553055 can always be used even when the declinations or circumferences are different. We shall present a paper summarizing all mathematical formulas at the end of these articles".
The chariots of the other planets and their distances can be derived from Bhagavatam also, as I have explained. The universe has an edge in every direction where the universe ends and the spiritual world begins.
Compiled by Mayesa dasa, edited by Gauragopala dasa.
Part One - The Chariot of the Sun is 28,800,000 miles long
You can begin the calculation in the following way. Fifth Canto Srimad Bhagavatam explains the "chariot of the sun" is 28,800,000 miles long. By several other verses, which give different figures, we can understand that the "chariot of the sun" has to be multiplied by 30.
This figure 30 is the number of muhurtas. (There are 30 muhurtas in a 24-hour period). 30 x 28,800,000 is 864,000,000, now this is the Sun at 23.5 degrees south. Similarly a figure is there in Bhagavatam 756,000,000, that is the Sun at 0 degrees celestial. Then the Sun goes to the north to 648,000,000.
All this means is that you can demonstrate this to yourself on a ball. Take only one-half of the ball and wrap something around it so that it gradually moves away from the center towards the top so that at every moment the Sun is moving up and closer to the Earth. This means that the Sun is further away when it goes to the south 23.5 degrees and closer as he moves northward.
This is also confirmed in Matsya Purana, that the Sun is gathering water from the entire universe up to Dhruvaloka. Therefore the Sun changes sizes as he moves up and down. In the spring and summer he is gathering water, then he releases the water. We do not notice any change in size because he changes distance.
The modern scientist speculates that the Sun is only a ball of gases, however, the Srimad Bhagavatam explains that a civilization lives there. What we see with telescopes and space probes is only a limited view of all the cosmos.
The fact is, our gross material senses and their material technological extensions that magnify the material universe around us are not seeing the universe in its full potential. That includes other higher and lower dimensional realities such as the Yamadutas when they come to detain an embodied soul encased in a subtle material body on the death of their gross biological body.
Modern material science therefore has not the eyes to see the Demigods' realities, that include the Sun Planet and his chariot as explained in the 5th Canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam, nor can they see the clouds surrounding the Sun composed of water that the Sun has drawn there, as explained in the Matsya Puranas.
Part Two, Step One - Drawing the 'Chariot of the sun' diagram based on the descriptions found in 5th Canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam
How to draw a diagram of the Sun from the side explained in this way:
First take a square. (It will be helpful if you make it three or four inches on each side because we will be writing numbers under or on top of those lines later on) Then inside the square draw a circle. Where the circle touches the top and sides, draw lines. That divides the circle into four quadrants. It looks something like a gun site. (A square with a circle inside with a cross inside that.)
For this circle we will borrow the image of a clock to help us label its "points". I have already written how to draw it but let us go over it again. (I will also draw this out as I describe it where I am sitting typing this, so I do not make an error.) We shall label points where lines intersect as A, B, C, etc., then we can give the numbers of miles for these lines.
Where the two lines intersect in the middle of our circle will be point A. Where the horizontal middle line intersects the circle on the right will be B. (This is where the circle touches the square on the right.) At two 'o'clock we will make a point C.
Between two o'clock and three o'clock (on the clock face - the circle, exactly midway between C and B) make point D.
Draw a horizontal line from C to center vertical line. That point is E. Draw a horizontal line from point D to center vertical line. That is point F. We now have all our points. They should be on three parallel lines in the upper right quadrant of our circle.
We need two more lines.
Draw a line from point C to point F.
Draw a line from point F to point B.
We now have our points and lines. This is how to draw the diagram of the Sun from Srimad Bhagavatam. (It should look like two flags or pennants, one upside down and one right side up, the lower one larger and the upper one smaller.)
In the second step we will now insert numbers that are miles of distance.
Step Two - Constructing diagram of Chariot of the Sun
Now we shall write on top of or under our lines the numbers of the distances between all the points above.
Line AB is 137,509,870.8
Line BD is 56,400,000 (Although this line is circular it is called a line)
Line CD is 56,400,000 (Although this line is circular it is called a line)
Line FB is 149,946,415.4
Line FD is 120,321,137
Line AF is 59,790,993.67
Line FC is 112,459,811.5
Line EC is 103,132,403.1
Line EF is 44,843,245.13
NOTE:
The chariot of the sun in 5th Canto Bhagavatam is said to be 28,800,000. The meaning is that this is the Sun's greatest distance of movement in a muhurta. (There are 30 muhurtas in a 24-hour period.) He travels different distances every day. In fact, he loses 39,425 miles every muhurta, so that we can know the distance the next day. 864,000,000 minus (39,425 times 30) which is 862,817,250.
This will become obvious after you understand the math of the Sun's chariot diagram.
Step Three - Circumference of the Sun
If the circumference of the Sun is 28,800,000 times 30 = 864,000,000 we divided by 2 and by 3.141592654=137,509,870.8. That is line AB (The formula is circumference divided by 2 and by PI - Pi is 3.141592654. Pi is a number that has no end because there is always (theoretically) a measurement smaller on a circle). 137,509,870.8 divide by cos (23.5) is 149,946,415.3, that is line FB.
The formula we used is the formula for finding the hypotenuse of a right triangle if we know the bottom side. (Mathematicians have several different names for the bottom of a right triangle. I like to refer to it as the "floor" or "bottom". Hypotenuse I call the "roof" because it slants. Or I just call it hypotenuse. The smallest side I call the "wall." The hypotenuse squared minus the floor squared equals the wall. That gives us line AF. Line FD is 756,000,000 divide by 2 and divide by PI (We get the figure 756,000,000 from Vayu and Linga Puranas)
These math formulas can be used to get line EC and EF. In order to get the arc or circular lines on our diagram we divide 864,000,000 by 360.
(There are 360 degrees in a circle) Then we multiply that number by the degrees we wish to know. 864,000,000 divided by 360 times 23.5 = 56,400,000.
NOTE:
If we came from the outside of the universe at its top we would look down and see the Sun circling Meru (which would be the unmoving center of a circle) in a clockwise fashion.
We would see Meru in the center, then Earth out to its side (maybe stationary), then the moon circling Meru and the Earth in a clockwise fashion, then the Sun circling Meru and the moon and the Earth in a clockwise fashion etc.
That is not the diagram of the Sun.
The diagram of the Sun is what you would see if you came from outside of this universe from the side of the universe. The diagram is like a snapshot of the Sun's movement. But it is on a piece of paper or on a screen, which is flat (one dimensional) and does not show that the Sun is moving in three dimensions.
The Sun starts at point B and moves towards the viewer (leaving the page) and then to the left side of our square and then backs behind it; in this way it has a circular movement (three-dimensional).
This is described in the Bhagavatam as just like an axle that is fixed to the top of Meru. The Sun's circle is getting smaller everyday and he is moving northward at the same time. He continues like this until he reaches his highest height and begins to descend in the same matter. As he descends he begins to add 30 times 39,425 miles every 24 hours.
For those keeping track of this site, I have found a small mathematical error in my computations. It does not however appear to affect the entire formula. The method I have employed for finding a circumference is mentioned below. So here is the proper method for finding a circumference so that we can get perfect results. It affects four of the planets so now this revised formula will prove more perfect.
Formerly I have written that to get the highest circumference of a planet from its middle you multiply by the cos of the declination, however, this is the proper way to change circumference and make this mathematics final and clearer:
"If I want to know the Sun's 864,000,000 circumference at 23.5 degrees south I use this formula: 864,000,000 / 360 = 2,400,000 x (360- (23.5 X 1.913553055) = 756,000,000. The number 1.913553055 can always be used even when the declinations or circumferences are different. We shall present a paper summarizing all mathematical formulas at the end of these articles".
The chariots of the other planets and their distances can be derived from Bhagavatam also, as I have explained. The universe has an edge in every direction where the universe ends and the spiritual world begins.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)